Garmin Fishfinders

[Mbae]

Anyone here use a garmin fishfinder on their yak? I am thinking of picking up a Garmin Echo 301c or even the bigger 501c for the Tarpon 120.
Can't seem to find many reviews about the Echo series.

I was thinking of purchasing a Lowrance Elite 4x HDI series at first but heard that the down imaging does not work well or at all if you mount the transducer inside the hull.. so this lead me to start looking at models without down imaging capabilities.

So the Garmin fishfishers come with a 77/200kHz transducer with a 50/200 kHz transducer sold separately. Am I to assume the 50/200 kHz transducer is what I would want for a yak? And is that why maybe these fishfinders don't seem as popular because they come with the 77/200 kHz?

Other possible models similar to the Echo 301c would be a Humminbird PiranhaMAX 195C or Lowrance Elite 3x.
As you can see, I am trying to stay on a budget less than $200.

[Turtle135]

Regarding the transducer issue, in short, since you will likely be fishing in less than 200 feet of water, either the 77/200 or the 50/200 will be fine in a kayak.

Read the "transducer frequency" section for an explanation: http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=197

[ComeOnFish]

Mbae,
Recently I purchased a Garmin Echo 301dv. This is under $200 and comes with Down Vu.
I used only once at CBBT for tautog on Jan 10th. I scanned (Down Vu) bottom of the water for at least 5 hours and use the regular sonar for about 2 hours.

I don't know the long term durability and reliability yet. I don't dare to submerge the FF in the saltwater. If it happens then I will know.
I mounted the transducer inside an Outback using a Duct Seal well. I didn't have any issue because transducer was inside the hull. I believe the most of (perhaps all) transducers are thru-hull. Of course the water temp was off. For this, I carry a thermometer all the time.

I like color FF over 2 tone (grey scale) FF. I can tell characteristics of the structures better when using a color FF. When I used the Down Vu over my tautog spots, I finally, confirmed that the images on regular FF I saw previously were indeed hard structures such as rubble, broken concrete beams. This also helped me understand what the colors on the regular FF meant. So now I can use the regular FF to find the hard structures at CBBT.
To scan around the bridge pilings, I stayed away from the pilings by 15-25' depending on the depth of the water. So when I actually fishing the bridge columns, I check the depth changes only.

I did not see any stripers when using FF feature. I tried both 77KHZ and 200KHZ (narrow angle). I will know the image of stripers when I find them in the future. Also I need to fine-tune sensitivity (Gain - Garmin calls Gain). I will set to about 85-90% to start with. I also need to set scroll speed to trolling because I constantly move.
With 200KHZ, I could scan around and between the bridge pilings by staying away from the pilings by 20-30'. So the FF will work at Bay Bridge, Annapolis, MD.

It was definitely easy to use this product (Comparing to my other Lowrance FFs). Going through the buttons for setting was very intuitive.

I will be using this FF during the winter in Lake Anna. I will post more about Garmin Echo 301dv.

Joe

[Mbae]

Thank you for providing me with some knowledge on these garmin units. I will definitely be using the duct seal method when i decide which unit to buy

[ComeOnFish]

Mbae,
I took the Garmin (Echo 301dv) to Lake Anna yesterday. I used wide Beam (77KHZ) for 7 hours in 5-51' of water. I set the Gain (sensitivity) to 80%. The screen was cluttered with all kinds of images. So I tried Auto-Medium. Well the screen was too cluttered again. So I set to Auto-low. It seemed auto-low cleared out unnecessary images.
I couldn't figure out the actual fish sizes from the sizes of fish images on the screen because I didn't catch any fish when the fish images appeared on the screen. I think that large fish images in 5-10' down were baitfish or white perch. This was because I caught 3 small LM and a WP when I thought I was on the top of schools of baitfish. The same size images more than 20' down were 2-3 LB LM I thought.

Next week I will set gain to 30% (starting from), and look for the stripers. Once I catch stripers when I see the fish images on the screen, I will know the images of stripers @16-22" in 12-20' of water.

I was confused about the speed setting because I thought fish image wasn't an arch. It was a straight line when I stopped moving. I think I may have to set the speed to 0 mph from trolling for kayak fishing. Or I am totally confused or misunderstood the whole thing. Yesterday I couldn't switch the speed setting. I need to read the manual.

I will post my setting and some screen shots, in case you buy a Garmin in few months. In few weeks, I will have a complete review.

Joe

[ComeOnFish]

Mbae,
Here is an intermediate review on Garmin (Echo 301dv):
I currently set Gain to "Auto Low". This setting is about right for Lake Anna Striper fishing.
When I saw school of minnow or shad at around 5 " long in 10-15' of water. They appeared on the FF as bunch of dots (not a cloud). I like dots better than a cloud. The factory default setting showed a bunch of big fish images in the past for baitfish.

I posted a fishing video in VA forum called "Schoolie Stripers at Lake Anna Dike 3 (Jan 31, 2015)"

I am not testing down vu any more in Lake Anna. I was satisfied at CBBT.
I set gain to "Auto Low".
I used wide angle beam (77KHZ)

at 01:46 on the video, you will see a single fish image (Which is 16-18" striper)
at 03:19 on the video, you will see multiple fish images (they are 16-18" stripers)

So far I like Garmin (Echo 301dv) a lot. But the long term review on durability and reliability will come years later.

Joe

[tufnik]

Joe,

When you were looking for fish, did you use DI or 2D sonar mode? I understand fish is much more detectable using DI mode compared to sonar mode.

When looking for fish, did you have the fish icon switch on? Or was it off and you looked at dots and arches to search for fish?

After you study the bottom in DI mode, did you switch back to sonar to fish and look for fish?

Color is nice, but how is it better than mono if you switch back to sonar (color) while fishing? Sonar gives you depth and dots/arches (fish), but sonar is not better than DI on identifying fish. Seems like you'd use color mainly for depth and contrast, but you can do that with mono too.

From what I'm reading on your post, it seems like DI mode does not help us when fishing close to pilings. Good ole sonar is good enough. Just watch the depth, drop the rig, and bounce the bottom.

Am still trying to figure out if it's worth getting a DI FF, especially when I prefer to fish close to pilings, piers and jetties.

[Cowpokey]

Down Imaging is really good for structure, and better for baitfish than sonar because it sees everything not water.

Traditional sonar is better for game fish, because it sees the air bladder and gives a larger response for that.

Edit add: Which is why I run both in spit screen.

[skinnywater]

Down Imaging is really good for structure, and better for baitfish than sonar because it sees everything not water.

Traditional sonar is better for game fish, because it sees the air bladder and gives a larger response for that.

Edit add: Which is why I run both in spit screen.

Good explanation.

[ComeOnFish]

Efrin,
I've been super busy. Sorry for the late response.

• When you were looking for fish, did you use DI or 2D sonar mode?

Ans) I think Down Vu on Garmin is DI.
I used sonar for fish images

• I understand fish is much more detectable using DI mode compared to sonar mode.

Ans) CowPokey answered that. I set the Garmin for me. here are two pictures for baitfish and striper on the Garmin. The first pic shows 5" minnow. I see the same bait fish image in 30' down. The second pic show 16-18 striper. How do I know? I saw minnow in Lake Anna all the time. I caught some of the striper on the pic. To see my preferable images (baitfish or game fish) I reconfigured the factory default setting.

• When looking for fish, did you have the fish icon switch on? Or was it off and you looked at dots and arches to search for fish?

ans) I think I already answered. I think fish ID should be off. I believe We need to learn how to configure FF. I had a smart phone for 5 months. I just learned how to check text messages. There were text messages from Snagged-Liners. Sorry for not replying the text messages. My smart phone is a dumb phone.

• After you study the bottom in DI mode, did you switch back to sonar to fish and look for fish?

Ans) No I didn't. I used DI only once at CBBT in the last January. I was looking for hard structures and I don't think there were any bait fish in 39F (top water temp) water.

• Color is nice, but how is it better than mono if you switch back to sonar (color) while fishing?

Ans) About 80% time I see no differences between mono and color. The one area I think color is better than mono is this:
At CBBT I wasn't sure about a bunched up fish image on the bottom on Mono FFs for a long time. I thought those image were 16-25" fish on the bottom. It turned out to be a boulder or concrete block laid on the soft bottom (mud ). When I Saw the same images on the DI. It was clear that the bunched up fish images were solid structures. After that I found that color sonar (on both Lowrance and Garmin FF) showed bright chartreuse or orange colors for solid objects. But with sonar on mono FFs, I couldn't intuitively distinguish the solid object from a bunched up fish images because the grey scale on the mono FF looked more like fish images.
Now I know the images for a single boulder on the soft bottom on color sonar.
I could clearly see a boulder and bait fish on color sonar in Lake Anna.

• Sonar gives you depth and dots/arches (fish), but sonar is not better than DI on identifying fish.

Ans) See Cowpokey's reply. I still need to study DI images more. But as of now, I can clearly identify the bait fish and game fish using Sonar.

• Seems like you'd use color mainly for depth and contrast, but you can do that with mono too.

ans) See previous answers.

• From what I'm reading on your post, it seems like DI mode does not help us when fishing close to pilings. Good ole sonar is good enough. Just watch the depth, drop the rig, and bounce the bottom.

Ans) True for you and me who fish mainly the fish on the bottom or between cracks, such as flounder, sheepies, and tautog. At CHSP I need the depth finder only because we know we are on the top of huge rocks and our target fish won't show up on the FF or DI.
Around the CBBT piling, With DI I can see the hard structures around the pilings. But now I know I can do the same thing with Color Sonar. Regardless Sonar or DI, to see the images, we need to stay away from the pilings depending on the depths of the water. I believe DI use narrow angle, and around the piling, I use higher frequency for narrow angle.
I believe your fishing and my fishing in the saltwater, Sonar is good enough.

But for the LMB anglers, DI will help a lot, I think

• Am still trying to figure out if it's worth getting a DI FF, especially when I prefer to fish close to pilings, piers and jetties

ans) For your fishing and my saltwater fishing in VA, MD, DE, I think Sonar is good enough.

In summary just for you,
I am still learning the Garmin. I think you shouldn't buy one more FF with DI. Instead, one of these days, fish Lake Anna with me once. You really don't have to clean kayaks and gears after fishing.
In Lake Anna, you can see bait fish and their images. You can see the rocks, cliffs, soft bottom, gravel bottoms and their images on FF. That's why I always configure my new FF in Lake Anna.

Joe

[Mbae]

Joe,

Thank you for all the great information you have provided and for keeping up with this thread for both myself and others.
Garmin fishfinders seem like they are great and do their job well.
I ended up picking up a Lowrance Elite 5 HDI from bass pro shops spring fishing classic for $300 though. It was a deal I couldn't pass up

Either way, I will definitely be keeping in mind all the things you have said in terms of when to use sonar/downvu, etc etc.

Thanks!

[ComeOnFish]

Joe,

Thank you for all the great information you have provided and for keeping up with this thread for both myself and others.
Garmin fishfinders seem like they are great and do their job well.
I ended up picking up a Lowrance Elite 5 HDI from bass pro shops spring fishing classic for $300 though. It was a deal I couldn't pass up

Either way, I will definitely be keeping in mind all the things you have said in terms of when to use sonar/downvu, etc etc.

Thanks!

Excellent!
Now you need to buy a good battery and a battery charger. You may start the new thread or find and bump up an existing thread. This way you may get more info from many members.

Joe