Bixpy Test Run

[yakscientist]

I've looked at finding the propulsion system that would take the speed of my PA12 to the next level. As a very general rule the maximum speed of any displacement hull--commonly called its hull speed--is governed by a simple formula: hull speed in knots equals 1.34 times the square root of the waterline length in feet (HS = 1.34 x √LWL). I can't get it past 5 mph which is what I get with the mirage drive at full scoot.

Equations like this fascinate me because basically although there is an upper limit, you really can blow past the number you achieve from that calculation simply be adding enough power. It has something to do with extending the waterline, i.e. the beginning of the wake at the bow of your kayak to the end of it long behind it. I would be curious to see like a honda 2.3 or one of the ultralight outboards on a kayak with a huge weight capacity (PA or Titan). I bet if you strengthened the mount enough, they could even support a 3 or 4hp outboard. The solo skiff has more of a planing hull and it can get up to about 20mph I believe with only a 6hp. I think it weighs about 150 pounds (not far off the PA14 or Titan), but again, the hull design is also very different.

A kayak or boating magazine needs to take like 10 of the most popular kayaks and just do a bunch of tests with gas and electric outboards on them. It'd be really interesting.

[nhunter344]

yakscientist beat me to it.

[silasvirus82]

I don't really care about top speed unless a thunderstorm is coming in and I'm stuck in current, but that's just poor planning. I'll be super happy with any unit that could maintain 4 mph for 2-3 hours runtime. That's enough to make it between spots more quickly or some extra boost at the end of the day, and it seems like either the Bixpy or Torqeedo are capable of this. The Bixpy is still unproven long term, but the Torqeedo seems to have plenty of issues now and it's been around a while. I've seen numerous Torqeedos for sale that were in need of repair. If the Bixpy lasts a few years and requires little or no repairs, I'll consider that a win.

[TomyTek]

I've had my Bixpy Jet for a couple months now and I'm pretty happy with it so far. Here's a speed test I did in my Hobie Outback https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntAXYUXQVEI. I intended to use mine to help me get out and back quicker. I'll still use my Mirage drive when I fish. The Bixpy Jet allows me to maintain a speed decent speed while I do other things like get my tackle ready or study my fishfinder. It may not be as fast as other motors, but I does what I need for now and the price point was good at the time of when I bought it. I also like the ability to take off the motor and use it for other purposes with the different mounting options.

The Hobie rudder Bixpy makes is not that great when turning while using the Mirage drive, so I will be doing the same mod Goody did with the sailing rudder. I did have an issue with some moss or some kind of weed that got wrapped around my prop. I had to pick it out and in the process, I broke the grill guard. I contacted Bixpy through Facebook and they sent me a replacement part with no questions asked. I'll post a video of what happened. If any of you want me to do any specific tests with my Bixpy setup, let me know. I'll make a video of the test and post it.

[silasvirus82]

If any of you want me to do any specific tests with my Bixpy setup, let me know. I'll make a video of the test and post it.

I have numerous things I'd like to know, but I'll be doing my own testing this weekend

[Oldbayrunner]

Everyone asks about speed. Here's my take on that. I don't care what one is using whether its peddle power or motor power one is only going to be able to go top speed for a much shorter period of time before they run out of juice physically or battery wise. The object to me is to get to where I am going, be able to troll for 1.5 to 2mph X amount of time and have ample juice left over to get me back in most any kind of weather. If you've got a peddle drive then that's a different story but not if your using paddle/motor. I'd love to use a peddle system but my knees just wont take it, I've tried. The test I am waiting for is for someone to use it exclusively motoring to get where they are going at least 2-3 miles from the launch, troll at 1.5 to 2.5 mph for at least 3-4 hours. Then bring it back trough a 21+ mph headwind, against an out going tide with at least 2-3 ft chop like I had to last Friday. That to me is a true testament of how well a motor and battery system do. I've got caught in those conditions at least that distance more than once with up to 30mph winds (Not by choice) using my motor system and a couple times had to motor at full speed and paddle my butt off to get me back but my battery and motor held up and got me back. I few others that have fished with me on here can attest to that as they were with me.

[silasvirus82]

Everyone asks about speed. Here's my take on that. I don't care what your using whether its peddle power or motor power your only going to be able to go top speed for a much shorter period of time before you run out of juice physically or battery wise. The object to me is to get to where I am going, be able to troll for 1.5 to 2mph X amount of time and have ample juice left over to get me back in any kind of weather. If you've got a peddle drive then that's a different story but not if your using paddle/motor. I'd love to use a peddle system but my knees just wont take it, I've tried.

Says the guy with a 100aH battery, lol. You could go around the world with that!

[Oldbayrunner]

Says the guy with a 100aH battery, lol. You could go around the world with that!

That's exactly why I have a 100ah battery and a 55# thrust motor. One trip in the Oyster, Va's current and wind taught to me to go big so I can go home. When You've got your motor going full bore and your going backwards you know your in deep doodoo..lol

[silasvirus82]

That's exactly why I have a 100ah battery and a 55# thrust motor. One trip in the Oyster, Va's current and wind taught to me to go big so I can go home. When You've got your motor going full bore and your going backwards you know your in deep doodoo..lol

I've had that happen before at an inlet, which was entirely my fault for not planning better. I decided to drop anchor and wait for the tide to shift. While I was waiting a massive shark breached maybe 10 yards from my boat. Puker factor was high for the next few minutes, haha.

[silasvirus82]

Today was the test run for my Bixpy and it met my expectations. I fished Blackwater, and the winds were fairly calm with no current. I brought my usual load, so this was a fair representation of normal conditions with few external factors.

Here’s a pic of the setup on an Outback.





The instructions said to run the Bixpy 3” below the waterline. That’s a lot different from the mirage drive and rudder setups, and I believe better suited for this unit. The Bixpy appears to be more sensitive to gravel, sand, and mud, so having it well above the rudder and fins is a good thing. Right now I’m slightly below the middle of the rudder, and I’m guessing drafting 6” to the Bixpy. I’m probably going to slide it up another 2” for 4” of cover. That’s going to leave even more vertical tube sticking up, but that’s fine by me. It just makes lifting the motor even easier having a longer lever. I ended up buying the regular universal setup, but for an Outback the new shorter unit will be better suited.

So the results: at 1/2 throttle it pushes my boat at 3.5 mph, and full throttle 4.5 mph. With a relaxed cadence of the Mirage Drive and 1/2 throttle I was going 4.0 mph, and 4.8 mph at full. If I pick up the pace peddling I could hit 5.5 mph and higher, but that’s really top speed for any duration. It was very comfortable cruising along at 4.5-5 mph, which is about a 1 mph increase from my normal pace. I traveled 8 miles today running at a variety of speeds and not using the motor while fishing. Back at the launch I was surprised to see 4/5 bars left on the battery. Supposedly it falls quickly towards the end, but I was not expecting a nearly full battery.

Raising the motor up and down was easy with the rope system, and removing the unit takes less than a minute. I did not install the steering system since I still have use of the sailing rudder, and that made install simple. The motor comes off removing two clevis pins and unhooking the lifting rope. Jeff Little could have saved himself a lot of embarrassment reading the instructions.

https://youtu.be/4mvBGl7tesM

Conclusion: it’s probably not as fast as a Torqeedo, but it’s not bad either. Someone with just peddles would have a hell of a time keeping up while you drink a beer casually. Construction seems good and the battery is top notch. If it holds together I will have no regrets.


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[silasvirus82]

But here again from what I watched it was still a relatively calm day with negligible winds on a lake with virtually no current. What I would like to see is how it handles the bay currents and winds. But Jeff's video does show some of the concerns I have had in my initial thoughts on this product. So thanks for posting that link.

Day 2 test run and working out some bugs, plus some wind and current to play with. My original performance results were pretty much the same, 1 mph over what I could do with the Mirage Drive at 1/2 throttle. At a relaxed pace into the wind (10-15 mph) I was doing 2.5 mph vs 3.5 mph in no wind. Kick on the Bixpy at 1/2 throttle it does 3.5 and 4.5 mph respectively. The Bixpy is the boost I wanted and the more I’m using it the more I like. I put in 10 miles today and I feel like I did 5. Still had 3/5 bars left on the battery too. The motor is quiet as well, I forgot it was running a few times because I couldn’t hear it.

Now for the bad. The universal setup is nearly useless in reverse as delivered. Furthermore, getting the motor into the down position involves lowering it 2/3 of the way using the rope + gravity, then kicking the motor on to lock into position. Sometimes this works ok, sometimes the prop spins half out of water for a bit, or I have to bump the speed way up to lock it into the clip. The Torqeedo comes with two ropes, one to raise and one to lower, but Bixpy didn’t want to do this to prevent damage when hitting something. I contacted Bixpy about the issue and they said they have been working on it, and will send out a solution free of charge when they figure it out. This same issue is also related to the reverse problem, which is the motor sometimes jumps out of the clip when in reverse, then bounces in the water providing no thrust. I’m not one to wait around, so I rigged up my own solution that worked perfectly today.

I now have two ropes like the Torqeedo, the factory rope to raise the motor, and I added a lowering rope to lock the motor in place and keep it there while in reverse. To keep the breakaway feature I attached a piece of Velcro to the end of the lowering rope that provides just enough resistance to use reverse but release in the unlikely event I hit something. The Velcro attaches right next to my seat seen below. Best of both worlds!



In this pic you can see the added rope, guides, and shackle.



The last thing I’ll say is even with reverse working now, it still leaves something to be desired. The design of the Bixpy is really for forward thrust only, but I found it adequate enough to slow me down or back out of an area. Also, a $1k motor should not require so much tweaking, but that’s to be expected I suppose with anything new/unique. I like tweaking so this didn’t bother me, but I’m sure others would find this frustrating.


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[Oldbayrunner]

Considering I just replaced my motor with a Newport Vessel 55# it will be awhile before considering switching. I will look forward to updates on the performance & fixes to this system for future consideration. Right now I am happy with what I have.

[tufnik]

Anyone know the capacity of the bixby power pack? How about the amp draw at half and full throttle of the thruster?

[Oldbayrunner]

Anyone know the capacity of the bixby power pack? How about the amp draw at half and full throttle of the thruster?

According to their specs 333 watt hrs on a 25v system..... To convert that to AH 333/25 = 13.875Ah..... As with the Torqeedo using a Lithium battery pack on a brushless 24V motor/battery will provide more efficient power & a longer run time vs a standard 12V brushed motor/battery lithium combination. This would equate close to the runtime using a 35ah Lithium with a 12V brushed motor.
As far as how much it draws at a given speed I couldn't tell you but perhaps others know.

[silasvirus82]

Anyone know the capacity of the bixby power pack? How about the amp draw at half and full throttle of the thruster?

Oldbay has provided the capacity figures which are consistent with the specs on their website. As to the draw figures at various speeds I also cannot comment, but from a practical standpoint maybe I can provide some insight. I generally average around 10 miles per outing and have never run out of battery power. I do not use the Bixpy for sole propulsion, but I'm certain if you kept the speeds around 3-3.5mph it would easily carry you the 10 miles by itself. I use my Bixpy for getting places a little faster, so I run 1/2 to 3/4 throttle averaging speeds of 4.5-4.8mph in my Outback. Once I reach my destination the Bixpy goes off and I only use the Mirage Drive. The longest hauls I've made were 5 miles each way at the CBBT, fighting some cross current and generally wind. For those trips I typically run the Bixpy at least setting 7 or 8 (out of 10) the entire way in and out, and still had 2-3 bars (out of 6 I think) of power when I got back. The point is, if you're using the Bixpy in conjunction with a peddle kayak I don't think the typical person on a typical trip would ever run out of power. If you're planning to use the Bixpy for primary propulsion and making a longer trip at higher speed settings, you may consider having a second battery pack.

Having had mine now for a year it's been great. It does more than what I was hoping for and so far I've had zero issues other than the initial setup mentioned above, which only applies to the universal setup. The only additional modification I have done is to relocate the battery to the front of the boat to balance out the weight of my kayak better. I've seen Torqueedo testing that proved this can make a significant difference, however the longer power cable does reduce the efficiency a small amount.

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