Conversion to Lithium Ion battery power...

[tufnik]

Good to hear it's working out.

I guess the smaller size allows you to place the battery in the front hatch. Whereas the group 24 was too big to do that.

Did you run the battery down near 10%? Curious to know about the power level there.

I wonder how the torqeedo motor responds to a small decrease in throttle. As dramatic as your Minn Kota?

Do you use an electronic variable speed controller?

[MetroMan]

Yes, the smaller size & lighter weight allows me to stow it up there. The group 24 is too heavy to be that far fore, and would have a negative impact on how the yak handles waves.

I haven't run the battery down that far yet. Most of the time, the actual fishing is not too far from...when trolling time comes around, I'll be able to do more practical tests on running it down that low.

I can't speak much for the torqueedo, not having any practical experience using it...but I would guess the current draw is non linear with it (as well as all types of dc powered motors....hence their claim of 48 minute run time at full throttle vs hours upon hours at reduced speeds/power settings.

The Torque is equipped with electronic speed controller. They (minn Kota) refer to it as maximizer technology.

[HJS]

Looks like a great set-up. I can't get a feel for how big the lithium battery pack is compared to one 54# lead-acid battery Any feel for how fast the trolling motor moves you along compared to paddling or peddling?

I use a 40# thrust Motorguide VariMax, 30" shaft, mounted on the side of my 16' Oldtown canoe. For longer days I take 2 of the BPS deep cells, 54# each. Short days I take only one. I always said that each battery stores a couple 1000 paddle strokes each. Not a bad trade off for the extra weight. I'll have to check out the speed difference between full bore and the next lowest speed.

[MetroMan]

Here is a pic with some items for frame of reference...


As far as speeds go, I get around 4.5-5mph. The difference really comes into play with endurance.

[jet]

how long does the battery last now that you have been trolling and crabbing?

[MetroMan]

I've yet to exhaust the battery. My longest days were JBay & the day before the TKAA tourney, where I was on the water for a total time of like 8+hrs each time. The most amp-hours I've consumed was around 38aH. The battery is a 60aH battery, I plan for 50 of them being usable. For crabbing, I would literally run the trotline for over 10hrs non stop. At "trotline speed", to motor only draws like 4-5 amps.

It has yet to hiccup or sell me short. One of the more valuable secondary benefits has become convenient storage where the old battery used to go. Well worth the $ for this experimental project for me.

[DOGFISH]

I remember when Metro was into this project. I applaud his diligence and research on the project. He did a great job.

As far as the Torqeedo comment. The 48 minutes may be close. I go about one mile, from launch to where I start trolling, when fishing at home. If I run at full throttle, from a fully charged battery, I am about at 64% when I get to the where I start fishing. If I slow down to trolling speed, I get much greater distance.

My experience is that most Torqeedo batteries are about $599 plus. The one from Hobie, the last time I priced it, was $720. The 403 ultralight batteries work on both, same motor. Torqeedo makes a huge LiIon battery for boats. I think the cost is about $2400.

[jet]

hobie has a solar panel for the torqueedo. i think its around 500-600 and they state that it will run the torqueedo indefinitely at 2 kt with proper sun

[MetroMan]

hobie has a solar panel for the torqueedo. i think its around 500-600 and they state that it will run the torqueedo indefinitely at 2 kt with proper sun

That would be awesome to have!!

[ronaultmtd]

Wow! Do we have talented folks and innovators on this forum- or what? Hats off to all the research, the investment of time, energy, and skills to make your own high tech, lightweight battery powered system- but...

Non Powered kayaks v. power- looking at powering options...sail, electric motors, gas motors...all have drawbacks...I can comfortably peddle my Mirage Drive Outback at 3 kts. (optimal trolling speed) for 9-12 hours. At the end of that day I am exhausted, tired and need a nap...I can push it hard and reach 4 kts. but the effort is not something I can sustain for more than thirty minutes-overall costs are a bit more for the Hobie Mirage Drives than standard kayaks ($1800 base price) but when you factor in battery costs, electric motor purchases (Torquedo or other) the Mirage drives are a bargain-

[ChelseaB]

I have used lithium-ion batteries before. And actually I've been searching for a site to look for some tips on what are the good and bad benefits of using such. Yesterday, I have read post with regards to this battery. It was said that there are serious safety concerns with the current lithium-ion batteries that are used in electric and hybrid vehicles. However, a research firm says that it has found a way to make a safer battery that can produce a longer driving range by utilizing a solid electrolyte instead of a liquid one.

Have a review on this internet page!

What do you think?

[MetroMan]

This risk was a concern of mine when I initially began my research. From what I recall learning during said research, the instability/fire potential comes from a different type of lithium battery....those that use Cobalt. LiFePO4 batteries are inherently more stable. They don't require venting...dont heat up during rapid charging or discharging for that matter. Even when punctured, no combustion of any sort occurs.

Its kind of a confusing misnomer that happens between lithium batteries. Even I'm guilty of it in this very thread, hence the title. There are "lithium ion" batteries, then there are "lithium IRON" (LiFe) batteries. What I use is a Lithium IRON battery. LiFePO4. (LiFeYPO4 to be exact...my cells also incorporate Yttrium, which further adds more stability, and provides better performance at subzero temps...which doesn't make much of a difference for my use lol).

This was all new to me when I started researching this about 1.5-2 years ago. I've been using this battery for a year now with no problems whatsoever from it. I keep the battery in a dry bag. Not because it needs to stay dry, it just makes it easy to carry that way. I have a hole cutout in the bag for it to be connected in the kayak, and to be connected for charging.

Quite often, I don't even bother charging the battery after use. On traditional batteries, it is recommeded to fully charge after each use. I don't bother with that. I've gotten to the point now where I only charge the battery when it needs to be charged. I've left it in my car and used it for multiple trips...weeks apart. This season, I plan to use this battery to power both the motor, and my new FF (386 ci DI)....and maybe some lights...and I'm thinking about installing wiring to power my video cameras. Why not, right?

[MetroMan]

Any feel for how fast the trolling motor moves you along compared to paddling or peddling?

I've raced mytmouse paddling his OK Big Game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AL7FjWbB3k

Paddle as fast as you can, and you can easily get a kayak to go faster than the torque. Especially since it takes a few seconds to get up to full speed due to plain ole physics. But what comes into play is endurance. The battery never gets tired.

Peddling is the same thing. I remember 2 yrs ago I raced YakFish on the susky. The mirage drive gives instant thrust, so he beat me easily. Besides, he's on all sorts of steriods & HGH, so I'm sure he could beat me in a 30 mile race in his Hobie lol.

But on a serious note, unless you're going somewhere miles away, the differences in speed hasn't mattered THAT much to me. It's very rare that we launch from somewhere and need to go multiple miles as fast as we can to get to the fishing spot. With that, it has kinda made the comparison null and void in my experiences. When I'm out with others, I end up adjusting my speed to stay with the group and chit chat...thats the joy of being out there with others. Other times, I just hook up the tow rope and put my yak to work.

If you wanna see speed, you haven't seen fast until you've seen Ryan (Shady) with his torqueedo at full speed combined with his peddling!

[archeryrob]

Lanston, what AH size did you buy?

[MetroMan]

I went with 60aH