2015 Hobie Outback - ST Turbo Fins and Sailing Rudder question

[Cowpokey]

I have the 2015 Pro Angler..with the Turbo fins...Just got back from Myrtle Beach..fished both north and south Carolina intercoastal...Sunset Beach....all worked wonderfully..for quicker turning and response pull up the skeg.....when traveling in the flats...and longer runs I drop the skeg..tracks better....no problems...If I could figure out how to get the pix off my cell to here..I would post....got into the specks.....in the rain....what fun!!!


dave

PA and Outback are different animals when it comes to rudder.

Easiest way is to use Tapatalk and post them directly from your phone. If you download pictures to your computer, you can attach them to a post or (my personal preference) put them on a photo hosting site like www.photobucket.com. Please start a new thread for that, so threads don't get too far off track and your "report" will be at the top.

[tufnik]

Not sure how much I can add to what already has been said, but here's my experience.

The two places I've fished often where the current can really rip are OC Inlet and CBBT.

Of course, you can avoid going too close to the OC inlet. Still, it can be a work out.

I've used my 2011 Outback w/ turbos for over three years. I've used my 2015 w/ STs since Fall of last year. Fished both yaks at CBBT where the current can really rip. I like and prefer the STs.

Turbos work well. To me, you stroke less, but you have to apply more leg power. The STs are smaller, so you stroke more, but you don't have to pump as hard. For the bigger guys who have stronger legs, I think the turbos should be just right. For a guy like me, at 150 lbs, the STs are just right. I stroke more, but I don't have to push as hard.

When I fish around the pilings at CBBT, the current can get pretty swift. With the turbos I found that I can't accelerate as quickly as with the STs when I'm trying to "correct" to stay near the piling. Makes sense. I can get the fins to move more quickly to get the thrust I need. It's easier for me to get thrust. And I need thrust quickly so I can stay in the "pocket" behind the piling.

For straight away cruising, the turbos can get you higher top end speed. At higher speed, the stroke is not as hard. With the STs, you have to pump faster (more strokes) to get higher speed. I personally prefer the STs because I usually want to cruise with moderate power strokes.

For high water current situations, I'd say the turbos have the advantage, but you have to pump hard. So, it becomes a question of sustaining that level of power output to fight the current. On the other hand, if you know how to fish such places as the CBBT pilings, you don't need to sustain power strokes for long. Through proper maneuvering, you can fish there with not too much problem.

Back to CBBT fishing behind the pilings. I definitely need the sailing rudder. The responsiveness helps me stay in the "pocket" as well as maneuver around the pilings where the eddy currents can push you everywhere.

On straight cruises, the sailing rudder is a bit too responsive. I always have to be on the rudder to keep the yak going straight.

Overall, especially for CBBT, I prefer STs.

[azmdted]

Thanks, great information. I picked up the Outback this afternoon and got the sailing rudder but not the turbos. The information here really helped, I can always go back later and get the turbos if needed. Now I'm into the joy and nervousness of rigging it. I just wish I had done this a month ago when I could have taken it out to make sure the rod holders are in the best place. As it is it looks like there is only one place on each side flat enough and big enough for them. Just beyond the rudder up and down pulls.

Tight lines to all,

Ted

[JohnE]

You can definitely add them later and probably sell them without losing too much if you don't like them.

Tufnik makes some good points and I agree there will definitely be a difference from one user to another on st or turbo preference. I am well over 200 lbs and have above average leg strength, so for me the turbos are a no brainer. For someone much lighter the st fins are probably perfect as Tufnik pointed out from his experience with them. We should also emphasize that the places we fish regularly are going to be much different/extreme from the average person fishing on a Hobie around the mid Atlantic. The old style standard penguin fins are probably good enough for many people in most situations, but are not always going to cut it the places we like to fish.

I still have the st fins, and I was impressed with the speed I was seeing when I tried them on my outback. When I first put on the turbos, I ran side by side at cbbt with my friend in the older revo with turbos and he could not keep up with my pace. I almost feel like I am pushing the mirage drive to its limits sometimes and worry about bending a shaft or something but so far it has been hanging in.

[azmdted]

After my time on the water this weekend I thought I'd answer my own question for others who may have the same one. As far as the rudder goes, the sailing rudder was great and as someone mentioned will turn the Outback on a dime. I found that I needed to make many tiny adjustments to stay straight, but that was okay. I assume the smaller rudder would allow for truer tracking with less action, but the ability to turn quickly with the sailing rudder is fantastic.

Now to the fins. I used the out of the box new ST fins. I don't have the Turbo's so my thoughts should be taken with that in mind. I wasn't impressed with the fins, but then again having been a paddler before my expectations may not have been realistic. But after testing it with the current, against the current and fighting the main current around the rockpile my impression is that when it comes to the fins you really need to think about what your natural physical cadence is. By that I mean are you someone who pedals a bicycle at the recommended 60-80 rpm, are you someone who is alwasy quick in the actions, or are you more like me (6'2" and 220) who generally does things at a slower cadence but with power in each stroke. I found that I had to go out of my natural body rhythm with the standard STs in order to move against the current around the rockpile and I wouldn't want to do that for long. Even in quiet water my natural cadence had me moving at only 2.4mph. I could jump up to 4 if I forced myself into a higher cadence. But whether I'm biking, swimming or walking, I take longer, slower strides. Therefore I'm thinking that the turbos will better fit my natural style and get me better speed and power with a slower cadence but at the cost of more power in each push, which is what I'm used to. If you're thinking about STs v Turbo's I encourage you to think about your natural style and whether your a long, slow strider who can put more power into each pedal, or a natural quick, short strider and start there. Tufnik's post was right on, and I think we're getting to the same observation.

Final initial impression about the Outback versus a paddling kayak, there is a bit more to think about in the Outback. I'm sure that it will become second nature the more I use it, but there is something in the simplicity of a paddling where I more or less 'willed' myself into turns instead of consciously thinking about adjusting something. Overall I'm very happy with the Outback. It looks, and is, wider than my Pescador 12, but otherwise from the top it looks similar to many kayaks. But flip them over and look at the bottom and all of sudden the Outback looks like a boat compared the Pescador. You pay for that in weight, but the roominess and strudiness is fantastic.

BTW, when I picked mine up there were about 7 other kayaks laid out waiting to be picked up as well. ALL in Ivory Dune. I think we will be seeing a lot of Ivory Dune on the bay this year.

[Mark]

That's a good analysis.

For what it's worth, I doubt many pedal kayakers here regularly cruise above 3 mph. I can go long distances comfortably between 2 and 2.5 mph with STs. That's a normal walking cadence where I can speak freely to a nearby fellow kayaker without being winded.

Current and wind will impact that of course. Last week in the Patapsco going downwind with the tide I pumped the fins to 6 mph to avoid remaining in the path of on oncoming motorboat. But returning to a normal stride dropped me down to 1.9 mph going in the opposite direction.

Also for what it's worth I have caught stripers trolling at 1.9 mph and near 3 mph. It seems like the pedal kayaks are nicely "geared" to give us effective trolling speeds at moderate effort. If we were constantly out-of-breath pedaling them to catch fish, they surely wouldn't be so popular.

[ComeOnFish]

I like Turbo Fins. But turbo fins hurt my knees often after paddling a whole day (8-14 hours). Pedaling back from the Outer Wall (CHSP) and First Island (CBBT) against wind and current with Turbo Fins hurts my knees. I am not the only one experiencing knee pain. I am thinking getting ST fins for my Outback.
The other disadvantage on Turbo is that I got stuck easily in the shallow water. So I do pedal in half motion to keep the turbo fins up in the shallow water. I carry an extra turbo fin stem, stock fins and stems and stainless tools to replace the bent stem if bad thing happens.

Like Tufnik said, with the smaller fins, I can accelerate faster if needed when structure fishing in high waves and fast current.

Joe

[azmdted]

Good point about the knees. I noticed a little soreness in mine, but until I get more hours in I'm not sure if it's knee pain or pain to the new motion and muscles for so long that I will adjust to. I know that one of my considerations on the why I think turbos are better for me as well was that when I tried to go into the current around the rockpile, with just a slight breeze on me, I had to push pretty hard with the STs to make 1 mph. If that had been a 10 mph wind in my face that would have been unpleasant. So while my 2.4 was indeed a good trolling speed I guess I fear being caught in a wind and current and not having the power to push it. Though, like most anything I'm sure that we all adjust as we develop new skills and muscles and when pushing is needed I reckon I could pump pretty quickly for a while. I just wouldn't want to do it for long.

[Romo]

It took me almost a whole season to get comfortable with the turbos. I also experienced some initial soreness in my knees and hamstrings the first few trips out but eventually I noticed I was going much further and faster with no pain. Just imagine going from a bike that only has 1st gear to a bike that only has 20th gear. It takes some time.