cold water clothing: drysuit vs. dry shirt and dry pants vs. dry shirt and waders

[Gary G]

Folk: This will be my first Fall kayak fishing and I need to get some cold water protection clothes. I've never had any before and have no first hand knowledge of the pros and cons of the different types. I have read of people using dry top and dry pants combinations, dry top with waders with a belt around them, and drysuits. I see Stohlquist had a dry suit for around $500 (model is "EZ"), and Kokatat has a similar priced SuperNova dry suit. It seems to me that this is the Cadillac approach. I seriously question whether waders with a belt around your waist would keep water out during a total immersion. A dry top and dry pant bottom would probably work ok, but seems you are taking a lot of chances counting on both seals working correctly (bottom of the shirt and top of the pants). Is there any advantage to using a dry top and dry pants instead of a drysuit? The cost is about the same. Any comments on how comfortable the Stohlquist EZ is compared to the Kokatat SuperNova?

Thanks,

Gary G

[J.A. Veil]

Gary -

Do some searching on earlier posts on Snaggedline. There are quite a few different opinions on this subject. A full dry suit will give you the most protection from cold water, but other combinations (like the chest waders and dry top that I use) will give you some protection too.

The key concern is allowing your body to stay warm enough so you can get back on/in your kayak or swim/walk to shore before you succumb to hypothermia. If you are fishing in open deep waters a long way from shore, having the extra protection afforded by a dry suit may be a good choice. If you fish in tidal creeks close to shore (as I do in the winter), different combinations of dry gear may be fine.

As a final consideration, try to avoid motions or actions that make you and your kayak unstable. One of the most common things that cause tip-overs is reaching behind you to get gear from the rear area and leaning too far out to the side. These motions should be minimized at any time, but particularly in cold weather.

[Mark]

Gary,

John has given you excellent advice.

I do not use a dry suit nor do I feel compelled to purchase one because I change my fishing patterns in cold water. While I may venture far from shore in the Bay in the late spring through early fall, I do not do so in cooler water. I confine my fishing to creeks and smaller waters where I am rarely more than 50 yards from shore. Indeed most of the time I am not more than 50 feet from a shoreline in cold water. Plus I never fish alone in the late fall and winter.

I stated in another thread here recently that I wade into the water at the launch site to enter and get out of my kayak in order to avoid damage to the hull that may come from beaching it. When the water gets too cold for comfortable wading I use Kokatat dry pants to protect my legs. I also wear neoprene shoes and layers of regular clothing on top (turtleneck and sweatshirt(s)), with a windbreaker shell depending on how low the air temperature is. You can actually overheat in the winter while kayaking if you wear too many clothes. The most expensive part of my cold-weather gear is the Kokatat pants which cost about $150.

I think you also have to consider what you'll be catching as the fall progresses and where those fish will be. Do you need to fish in big water that would absolutely require a dry suit should you topple overboard far from shore? The answer for my fishing style is no.

As the water cools, the white perch leave the shallows in our creeks and smaller protected tidal waters but the pickerels stay. Those pickerels are often joined by keeper sized stripers gulping as many calories as they can daily to prepare for winter before they too head to deeper water. You can get plenty of striper action in small waters well into December. And I must admit my Revo has broken through skim ice in Severn creeks to pursue pickerels in January and February.

On mild winter days, you'd be surprised what an Eastern Shore pond will produce. Last New Year's Eve I joined several other members of this forum in Wye Mills and Tuckahoe. We caught crappies and largemouth bass on spinner baits, no less. Those ponds are shallow and heat up fast.

My point is that you can still fish from your kayak in the winter without being geared up in a dry suit. You must be careful. You must be selective where you go. And you should always go with others.

Ultimately the choice is what you are comfortable both physically and from a precautionary standpoint. My pedaling produces a lot of body heat even in cool weather. I think if I was completely encapsulated top and bottom with a watertight outfit I would be uncomfortable. I like the flexibility and breathability of wearing regular clothing on top. As for the cold water risk, the only 100 percent safe method is to not go out in cold weather at all. Hypothermia happens fast regardless of what you are wearing. With that in mind, I stay in areas where I believe I can scamper to shore quickly and presumably be attended to by my dry kayaking buddy. My boat and gear would be the least of my concerns.

[Egriger]

I Personally have the Super Nova suit. Purchased it last year from Paddleva.com for 450.00 delivered. Its an excellent suit for the money and has giving me the confidence and security to fish all winter. At this price you would be hard pressed to put together a waders and dry top combo. Especially one that was as dry. The relief zipper is a MUST!

I am a Big/fatter guy 5 11 and 250 to 260. the Kokatat xxl fits with PLENTY of room. I tested the suit dryness a few times at launch locations, its completely dry. It also adds a good amount of buoyancy. The zippers are a little snug at first but the supplied lube helps.

The suit is a little bit a fight to put on the first time or two, but once you figure a good routine- its pretty easy. Base layers the gather or bunch can make it a little tougher to get on.

I would not hesitate to pick up this suit!!!! The new 2 piece suits are pretty intriguing.

MY OPINION------If the water temp is under 55 to 60 and you are not prepared YOU DO NOT BELONG THE WATER!----- The shock of freezing cold will completely disorient you, whether you think you can swim to shore or not----MY OPINION

[EMSer]

I Personally have the Super Nova suit. Purchased it last year from Paddleva.com for 450.00 delivered. Its an excellent suit for the money and has giving me the confidence and security to fish all winter. At this price you would be hard pressed to put together a waders and dry top combo. Especially one that was as dry. The relief zipper is a MUST!

I am a Big/fatter guy 5 11 and 250 to 260. the Kokatat xxl fits with PLENTY of room. I tested the suit dryness a few times at launch locations, its completely dry. It also adds a good amount of buoyancy. The zippers are a little snug at first but the supplied lube helps.

The suit is a little bit a fight to put on the first time or two, but once you figure a good routine- its pretty easy. Base layers the gather or bunch can make it a little tougher to get on.

I would not hesitate to pick up this suit!!!! The new 2 piece suits are pretty intriguing.

MY OPINION------If the water temp is under 55 to 60 and you are not prepared YOU DO NOT BELONG THE WATER!----- The shock of freezing cold will completely disorient you, whether you think you can swim to shore or not----MY OPINION

+1

[Gary G]

Thanks Guys. I took John Veil's advice and searched earlier postings on the same subject. I haven't done it extensively, just a pretty quick search, however I stumbled on a link to youtube from DonV on 9/18/14 which was a videotaping of the editor of "Kayak Angler" jumping into the water to demonstrate the effectiveness of all three options. The video illustrated exactly what i was interested in--it is great. One of the more interesting take aways is to see how bouyant he is with the drysuit (that had never occurred to me, but made sense when I saw it). Basically, the dry suit acts very much like an inflatable life vest when the angler falls in the water. The water pressure squeezes all the air inside the suit up and around the shoulders area giving the wearer tremendous boyancy--and all this effect without the life vest. Add the life vest to the equation and the angler is really upright. Particularly important because it keeps water from getting into the suit through the neck seal. As you would expect, the dry top and dry pants combo scored middle and the waders and belt only did poorly.

I'm particularly attentive to this issue because I have a sea kayaking background and the trainers in sea kayaking just pound into their students the dangers of cold water and the need to very carefully prepare for it (I never did any cold water paddling, but now with my Hobie Revo and the lure of Stripers in November and pickeral in December/January/February, I'm motivated). Sea Kayaking magazine (now out of business) had story after story about people who got into very serious trouble and many times killed with exposure to 45 degree water. Many times they were out in big, big water with long ways back in to shore; but i remember a story of a guy who fell in getting into his kayak on his dock, and barely survived. Being a good swimmer didn't help him, his muscles contracted and all he could manage was a very poor doggie paddle to make it to shore (which he barely did). He was by himself. He is lucky he didn't suffer the disorientation Egriger refers to. No doubt if he had a buddy (as Mark points out) it wouldn't have been as bad. John Veils tips on balance are well taken too.

I see REI.com sells the Stohlquist EZ, but they don't sell the Kokatat SuperNova. This is unfortunate as I like buying stuff from REI because they have a GREAT return policy. You can use the stuff and if after a couple uses you dont' like it, they will take it back no questions asked. Seems like most people on this website like the SuperNova. Anyone know who sells it and has a really good return policy similar to REI? Anyone have any trouble with the Stohlquist? Can anyone contrast on to the other? They're around the same price.

Thanks,
Gary

[RussellK]

Found this on sale at Patagonia.com, looks like proper gear. You can get it for $280 with 15% off coupon M2981403
http://www.patagonia.com/product/gor...187659098.html

[J. Rentch]

I do not have a dry suit- full waders and a dry top. Just came across this site for dry suits. Don't have any history about them, but the price is sure reasonable. " mythicdrysuits.com "

[creight57]

cold water clothing: drysuit vs. dry shirt and dry pants vs. dry shirt and waders

Thanks Guys. I took John Veil's advice and searched earlier postings on the same subject. I haven't done it extensively, just a pretty quick search, however I stumbled on a link to youtube from DonV on 9/18/14 which was a videotaping of the editor of "Kayak Angler" jumping into the water to demonstrate the effectiveness of all three options. The video illustrated exactly what i was interested in--it is great. One of the more interesting take aways is to see how bouyant he is with the drysuit (that had never occurred to me, but made sense when I saw it). Basically, the dry suit acts very much like an inflatable life vest when the angler falls in the water. The water pressure squeezes all the air inside the suit up and around the shoulders area giving the wearer tremendous boyancy--and all this effect without the life vest. Add the life vest to the equation and the angler is really upright. Particularly important because it keeps water from getting into the suit through the neck seal. As you would expect, the dry top and dry pants combo scored middle and the waders and belt only did poorly.

I'm particularly attentive to this issue because I have a sea kayaking background and the trainers in sea kayaking just pound into their students the dangers of cold water and the need to very carefully prepare for it (I never did any cold water paddling, but now with my Hobie Revo and the lure of Stripers in November and pickeral in December/January/February, I'm motivated). Sea Kayaking magazine (now out of business) had story after story about people who got into very serious trouble and many times killed with exposure to 45 degree water. Many times they were out in big, big water with long ways back in to shore; but i remember a story of a guy who fell in getting into his kayak on his dock, and barely survived. Being a good swimmer didn't help him, his muscles contracted and all he could manage was a very poor doggie paddle to make it to shore (which he barely did). He was by himself. He is lucky he didn't suffer the disorientation Egriger refers to. No doubt if he had a buddy (as Mark points out) it wouldn't have been as bad. John Veils tips on balance are well taken too.

I see REI.com sells the Stohlquist EZ, but they don't sell the Kokatat SuperNova. This is unfortunate as I like buying stuff from REI because they have a GREAT return policy. You can use the stuff and if after a couple uses you dont' like it, they will take it back no questions asked. Seems like most people on this website like the SuperNova. Anyone know who sells it and has a really good return policy similar to REI? Anyone have any trouble with the Stohlquist? Can anyone contrast on to the other? They're around the same price.

Thanks,
Gary

I don't know anyone that sells that particular kokatat model, but that REI price is way high on the stohlquist. The EZ suit has been on my list for a while at ACK.com where it regularly retails for 399.99. Register as a new user and they'll send you a 15% off code that brings that price down to about 360 including tax. Their customer service is known to be top notch, but it is not local so factor that as a consideration. The only major detraction I have heard on that suit is the color. It's not high visibility which of course can be an issue on a yak and further the black will overheat you in bright sun on even cool days.


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[bunnielab]

The relief zipper is a MUST!

Sadly, this. I have a drysuit that I very much disliked, so I moved to waders and a drytop. While the latter is far more comfortable, the lack of a relief zipper was untenable. I drink a lot of coffee in the winter (well, all the time to be fair) and it kills some of the fun of early morning fishing to go without it.

[Gary G]

I don't know anyone that sells that particular kokatat model, but that REI price is way high on the stohlquist. The EZ suit has been on my list for a while at ACK.com where it regularly retails for 399.99. Register as a new user and they'll send you a 15% off code that brings that price down to about 360 including tax. Their customer service is known to be top notch, but it is not local so factor that as a consideration. The only major detraction I have heard on that suit is the color. It's not high visibility which of course can be an issue on a yak and further the black will overheat you in bright sun on even cool days.


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Creight57: thanks. I think I'm zeroing in on your approach. I see a Stohlquist EZ in my future shortly!!

thanks all,

[silasvirus82]

I have the EZ and love it, doubt you'll be disappointed.