Float plan registry and snaggedline liability waiver

[dirtyjake237]

Hello fellow snaggedliners, like most of you I have more free time in the winter months due to not fishing every chance I get. I have only been a member for about a year and if this has already been discussed in the past please forgive my ignorance.
I recently took a road trip to kayak, fish and overnight camp at cape lookout national seashore and they recommend if you use their parking lot at the ranger station that you submit a float plan. It only took a few minutes to fill out and my wife felt a little better about me being gone for 3 days.
I bring this up for a couple of reasons. First due to recent events locally here in and around the bay area, not that I'm saying a float plan woulda coulda shoulda saved anyone. It just got me thinking more about safety and as all others my thoughts are with the families who lost a loved one. Another reason I am posting is that I remember us having an issue with the MD DNR at Jonas Green not allowing a group of more than 20 unless we had liability coverage. Kudos to the hosts cancelling due to unfavorable conditions and keeping us all as safe as possible.
Thoughts on using a free site like https://floatplanregistry.com or recommending a float plan site. The site supports multiple vessels per user, emergency contacts, virtual yacht clubs and even supports real time GPS SPOT devices.
Also I am a member of some local road cycling clubs and we all sign liability release waivers so the club can't be sued and the state of MD can't be held liable in the event of an accident during races by participants. Or maybe we should talk with the sailboaters I see organizing races every Sunday on the Severn, I know they number more than 20 and the DNR and CG had to fish 15 or 20 of them out of the water last month.
Any thoughts? Or is this way off base for the forum?

[J.A. Veil]

Another reason I am posting is that I remember us having an issue with the MD DNR at Jonas Green not allowing a group of more than 20 unless we had liability coverage. Kudos to the hosts cancelling due to unfavorable conditions and keeping us all as safe as possible.
Any thoughts? Or is this way off base for the forum?

I was one of the hosts for the December meet and greet. I learned of the 20-person limit just a few weeks before the event. The cold and windy weather made my decision to cancel the event easy -- safety must come first, regardless of our passion and enthusiasm for our sport.

Regarding any liability waiver, we had considered requiring a signed waiver form, but decided instead to add an additional notice to the announcement of the event:

"Safety Alert: The water will be quite cold by then. Please plan accordingly and wear appropriate protective gear. Participation is solely at each person’s discretion. Your decision to fish or not fish should be based on the weather conditions that day, your own equipment, and your level of experience."

That language highlighted that the final decision must be made by the individual, not the organizers. I do not know how well that type of language would protect me and the other organizers from an aggressive lawyer looking to file a liability suit.

I have no comments to add on the concept of a float plan.

[suicyderider]

I think common sense needs to be taken into account. If you plan to attend an event, no one but yourself should be liable for your inability to make a decision on yours and your kayaks capabilities. These events are of free will and open to kayakers who want to fish but not go alone. The only implied extra safety is you are not alone. Do not get me wrong float plans are great as far as a waiver these are public waters and not a group event that require participation. Just the way I feel about it. Thanks for the float plan link I do make it a point to let people know what water and where about I am fishing when I go, I will be checking that out.

[ronaultmtd]

Common sense is not as common as you might think...as I get older I find my risk-taking tolerance narrowing and comfort becoming more important...don't get me wrong, what I find as decent fishing weather, some are not comfortable launching a kayak in the same conditions- I can take some bumpy water easier than extreme cold...and any time it is windy, I am looking for sheltered waters or headed home...I fish out of a very seaworthy, stable kayak- all kayaks are not equal...SIK vs.SOT- and not all SOT kayaks are as seaworthy as others...if you have to worry about conditions, you might be pushing the safety envelope...but even with a seaworthy kayak, an experienced kayaker, & good weather- things can go wrong in an instant- in cold weather, a fishing buddy is essential as is appropriate clothing...

[suicyderider]

very much agree I almost put ,common sense as uncommon as it is, in my post lol

[Memory Lapse]

"In consideration for my participation in fishing from a pointy wading pool in extremely hazardous conditions and potentially lethal water and air temperatures, and with the understanding that I am an old out of shape fart, I hereby release any and all parties from any and all liability incurred, including but not limited to loss or damage to property, injury, or death."

[Mark]

The organizers of most other group events from bicycle rides to HOW events that expose people to possible physical harm require participants to sign a waiver.

The argument against requiring a waiver, I believe, (I am no lawyer) for a M&G is that there is no clear-cut sponsor organizing the events for financial or promotional gain. Our events are simply folks getting together to fish.

A lawyer would have to dig hard to find someone to sue but if one were so inclined, my guess is that he or she would start with the host(s) of a trip. So I believe there is a miniscule chance for M&G hosts to be aggravated with potential litigation by an unscrupulous lawyer and a participant client looking for a payout for a real or perceived injury.

Short of having participants sign a waiver form, I believe a statement like the one John composed should be standard fare on all M&G organizing posts. It may have absolutely no legal standing whatsoever. A good lawyer can find a way around any statement if circumstances warrant. But it's a worthy reminder for all participants to be very careful and it may just inhibit those who want to bring frivolous charges from doing so.

[dirtyjake237]

So I spoke with the Anne Arundel Parks department and they helped me to read the rules correctly. They informed me that the liability insurance needs to list the parks and recreation department as the beneficiary for events over 20 people to cover any county property damage or clean up costs.
They also informed me to read the sign posted next to the launch near the porta john, paying close attention to what is written right under wear your pfd.
Thanks to all on the forums for sharing experience and insight to help out the less experienced.

[Mark]

So I spoke with the Anne Arundel Parks department and they helped me to read the rules correctly. They informed me that the liability insurance needs to list the parks and recreation department as the beneficiary for events over 20 people to cover any county property damage or clean up costs.
They also informed me to read the sign posted next to the launch near the porta john, paying close attention to what is written right under wear your pfd.
Thanks to all on the forums for sharing experience and insight to help out the less experienced.

You've raised a slightly different legal concern...liability insurance.

The assumption of AA County Parks is that large organized groups using its facilities have event insurance to cover mishaps to participants. They are telling you that they want a piece of that action if needed by being named in the specific event insurance policy to cover their expenses for damage your group has caused to their properties. Frankly, I didn't know they could do that. I assumed the county has its own insurance to cover such situations.

Most clubs that hold organized gatherings purchase event insurance to protect the organization (i.e. its officers) from financial liability for slip and fall accidents by attendees, damage to property, etc. The location of the event is typically named in the policy. I know this from my experiences in various clubs as an officer.

Again, our M&Gs are merely people getting together to fish. We're not a formal organization, per se. But what legal protections that designation offers to participants is beyond my understanding.

It raises yet another interesting question about liabilities.

We live in a litigious society. If someone can make a buck from the misfortune of others, they will.

That won't stop me from participating or hosting a particular M&G. But it's something I keep in the back of my mind.

[bunnielab]

I would also think that as the actual "meet and greet" takes place off of park property, ie the Severn River, a argument could be made that the rules about gatherings don't apply. I assume they are meant for large gatherings that use the actual park facilities, like cook-outs and birthday parties.

I do event production work for a living and have worked very hard to never get involved in the permitting side of things as it is always painful and frustrating.