Wilderness System Kayaks

[smithmal]

Newb to the forum.....

Just got back from "Big Demo Day" which was held at Farmville in VA. This event has been going on for over 20 years, so they really have it well organized and the demo site (Wilck's Lake) provides plenty of space to look at and demo the variety of fishing kayaks offered there.

I got to demo the following:
Native - Slayer 13.5 and Titan (both with pedal drive)
Old Town - Predator PDL and MK Minn Kota
Jackson - Mayfly and Coosa FD (with prototype pedal drive)
Hurricane - Skimmer 140
Hobie - Outback and PA14
Wilderness - ATAK 140, 120 & Radar 135

I took notes on all of them if anyone is interested.

What I was most impressed with was the ATAK 120. Very stable especially for its weight and tracked very well. I was also most impressed with the pedal drive technology in general. I thought the best boat using the pedal drive tech was the OC Predator PDL. The only reason that I wouldn't get the OC Predator PDL is that you can't buy the PDL without the pedal drive making the boat really expensive (almost $3k). I'd much rather just get a non pedal PDL with the option of adding a pedal drive in the future if I wanted.

Getting back to the Wilderness boats I'm really leaning toward the ATAK 120, but I like the options that the RADAR 135 and 115 have (paddle/pedal/motor). Does anyone have the RADAR 135 and can comment? Anyone tried out both the RADAR 135 and 115? Is there a big difference in stability between the two?

In terms of the specifics, here's how they stack up:

Boat Name: ATAK 120 RADAR 115 RADAR 135
Length 12'3" 11'8" 13'6"
Width 35" 34.5" 35"
Weight 86lbs 82lbs 89lbs


I'm a big guy (6'0" 250lbs) so stability is an issue with me (which is why I really liked the ATAK line). In theory, the largest/heaviest yak should be the most stable however, interestingly enough, I (and others there) thought the ATAK 120 was more stable than the 140.

I'm thinking I might purchase my boat this summer from Delaware Paddlesports since I vacation in Lewes each year and they are located there. I'm also thinking of renting the boat I'd like to get for the day (I think they charge $65 per day) so I feel real comfortable with it before purchasing.

Is there any other line that you would suggest (not listed above) that I should be on the look out for that would offer good stability and a comfortable ride. I'd mainly be fishing lakes, but on the rare occasion I might try my hand at small creeks that flow off the Chesapeake (my folks have a house near Reedville, VA).

Finally, other than DE Paddlesports, does anyone know of a dealer nearby (I live near Baltimore) that I could visit to demo the Wilderness boats I mentioned above or maybe someone has one of these boats and I could meet up with them to discuss and take it for a spin if possible.

Appreciate any information that can be provided.

smithmal

[manlystanley]

Welcome Smithma! Great first post. Thanks for the great information. I am looking at getting a second boat for my wife / girls and this info is great. Here is my thoughts.

-- I have found the center of gravity is real big in a kayak. In my Ride 135, I did have the deluxe higher seat. It made the Ride really tippy. So, I swapped seats with a guy who wanted a higher seat. So, I wonder if the ATAK 120 had a lower seat? Also, I had heard that shorter yaks are more stable, but don't track as well??? Others may correct this.

-- Hard question: rent for $65 or just buy? I'd think that renting it for a day is good thing. Not sure.

-- Question for you. Was there a huge difference instability and tracking wit these yak, or was it just a little different? I would have loved to do the same thing.


Best Regards,
Stan

[RavensDfense]

Rommels Hearth and Outdoors; formally Survival Products (same staff as before....new name) is a Wilderness Dealer. They have both the Atak and Radar in stock. They are located in Salisbury, MD and although they are not tax free, they'll match the advertised price of any other dealer (so this negates the pesky sales tax). You can also demo either boat at the large lake located behind the shop. Their number is (410) 543-1244.

[smithmal]

Welcome Smithma! Great first post. Thanks for the great information. I am looking at getting a second boat for my wife / girls and this info is great. Here is my thoughts.

-- I have found the center of gravity is real big in a kayak. In my Ride 135, I did have the deluxe higher seat. It made the Ride really tippy. So, I swapped seats with a guy who wanted a higher seat. So, I wonder if the ATAK 120 had a lower seat? Also, I had heard that shorter yaks are more stable, but don't track as well??? Others may correct this.

-- Hard question: rent for $65 or just buy? I'd think that renting it for a day is good thing. Not sure.

-- Question for you. Was there a huge difference instability and tracking wit these yak, or was it just a little different? I would have loved to do the same thing.


Best Regards,
Stan

Stan,

Thanks for responding.

Yes, a high seat will really up the tippiness level on you. I remember getting in the PA14 and the seat was high. I didn't note it until I complained to the Hobie guy that the boat felt really tippy and he immediately said that was b/c I had the seat in the high position. After dropping it to the low position, the tippiness in the Hobie was much diminished. As I recall riding the 135, it was not as stable as the ATAK, but still pretty stable. You'd think with a pedal drive in the middle adding weight to the center, the opposite would be true, but that was not the case for me. As I mentioned, I like the fact that the RADAR can be purchased with or without the pedal drive saving the customer a lot of money, but still providing the option to "upgrade" in the future by adding a pedal drive if interested.

In terms of tracking, I didn't detect that much difference between the three in terms of tracking. The 135 has a rudder which should make its tracking even better than the ATAKs. The 135 also has the ability to lock the rudder in place so if you want to completely take your hand off the rudder lever and pedal backwards in a straight line (which might be necessary when fighting a big fish) you could accomplish this. I don't recall other rudders being able to be locked down, but I also wasn't looking for that. The locking mechanism on the RADAR line was pointed out to me before I got it and those were one of the last kayaks I rode. Also, I was riding in a lake with low wind, so take that for what it's worth when discussing tracking.

I'm pretty torn between the RADAR 135 and ATAK 120. The RADAR is bigger (so more storage capacity), cheaper and has the ability to add a pedal and motor drive vs. the ATAK 120. The ATAK 120 seemed to be more stable and more responsive (though I'm betting adding a big pedal drive to the center of the boat had something to do with that.

what I'd like to do is ride and compare both without the pedal drive installed (as I most likely won't be buying the drive initially anyway) so get a better paddling comparison.

Do you ride your 135 without the pedal? If so, is there any difference between the boat's responsiveness/stability when riding it without the pedal drive?

Thanks,

smithmal

[smithmal]

Rommels Hearth and Outdoors; formally Survival Products (same staff as before....new name) is a Wilderness Dealer. They have both the Atak and Radar in stock. They are located in Salisbury, MD and although they are not tax free, they'll match the advertised price of any other dealer (so this negates the pesky sales tax). You can also demo either boat at the large lake located behind the shop. Their number is (410) 543-1244.

RavensDfense,

Thanks for letting me know about this seller. Both Rommel and DE Paddlesports are almost exactly the same distance from me (140 miles). I called Rommel and they indicated rental fee was $50 a day and they would let me return a boat and take another one out if I wanted to do a comparison.

smithmal

[manlystanley]

As I recall riding the 135, it was not as stable as the ATAK, but still pretty stable.

Interesting. That's a big plus to get a ATAK.

I'm pretty torn between the RADAR 135 and ATAK 120.

What ever you get. It would be cool if we can go out together sometime.

Do you ride your 135 without the pedal?

No Pedals, no rudder.

[smithmal]

Stan,

Whoops, sorry... just noticed that indicated you ride a 135 Ride, not a RADAR 135 so of course you don't use a pedal drive.

smithmal

[J.A. Veil]

Annapolis Canoe and Kayak is also a Wilderness dealer. If that is closer to your home, it may be worth a call to them. I do not know what models they have in stock for water trials.

[RavensDfense]

RavensDfense,

Thanks for letting me know about this seller. Both Rommel and DE Paddlesports are almost exactly the same distance from me (140 miles). I called Rommel and they indicated rental fee was $50 a day and they would let me return a boat and take another one out if I wanted to do a comparison.

smithmal

Perfect! If I am not mistaken the rental fee also goes towards the price of your boat should you decide to purchase one of the kayaks you demo. Glad I could help.