Depth of the lure has three components: Length of line; weight of lure, speed of yak.

[manlystanley]

How do you guys figure out these three variables to put the lure at the right depth?? I have heard that 3 MPH is a good speed for a lure. Do you just guess at how much line to let out?? I put out about 100 feet on my rod that has a line counter. But, then most of the rocks were caught on the rod that I casted. I guess that I casted that bout 60 feet or so.


So, when you are told the fish are 10 feet deep, how do you get the three variables setup to put the lure in the magic depth???


Thanks,
Stan

[RavensDfense]

Typically speed is the one variable that is going to be the most difficult to control over an extended period of time. Waves resistance and fatigue will impact your ability to maintain a high speed for a long period of time, so I would suggest settling on something in between that you can maintain most consistently. I typically shoot for 2.0-2.5. I am assuming you are targeting stripers, which will hit a "more-slowly" trolled lure, so dropping the speed a touch shouldn't be a problem.

Some lures are have lips that place it in the desired depth range. Regardless of whether you are using those or a paddle tail/jighead combo, I would stagger your lines (if trolling two rods). When I troll in shallower waters, I will throw one back as far as I can (probably about 75 ft.) and toss another one out a little closer with the hopes of covering the water column as best as possible.

Another important thing to remember is to not get too caught up in the exact depth. Fish move up and down in the water column chasing bait. If your bait passes 3 feet over the head of a striper, he'll likely come up and grab it. They feel vibrations from the bait and do not rely solely on sight. This is especially true when fishing in water <15 ft. If you find yourself in water over 25-30 feet, you should consider hardbaits that are meant to dive that deep, as it is more difficult to get a jig head that deep without an inline weight.

[brianisoutside]

Depth of the lure has three components: Length of line; weight of lure, speed of yak.

Trial and error really. But imagine how much water a fish can travel in a short burst. Just get it over there heads, if they're feeding it doesn't need to be across their nose.


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[J.A. Veil]

Personally I do not try to get lures to run exactly at a precise depth. That is very difficult to do, especially in a human-power vessel. When trolling in shallow depths (<6'), I intentionally downsize lure weights so the lures are not hitting the bottom. When trolling in intermediate depths (say 6' - 20'), I use a range of lure weights to cover different depths.

I could write/talk for hours on this general subject but will limit myself to a few key thoughts.

There are a variety of factors that determine how deep your lure will run.

1) Boat speed (most GPS units are set to read speed over ground rather than speed through the water). When you paddle/pedal with a current, you are going to move faster than when you move against the current. But because the current is moving either with or against you, the lure may have the same relative speed through the water, even when the speed over ground is quite different. There were some opinionated discussions a few years ago on Snaggedline about the "best" trolling speed or speed range. Some prefer very low speeds. Under most conditions, the fish we are targeting can swim plenty fast to jump on a meal if they choose to do so. I generally try to keep my speed in the range of 1.7 mph to 3.5 mph (with consideration for whether I am moving with or against the tide). Depending on what lure you use, you want to make sure that it is swimming in a somewhat natural way at the speed you select.

2) Lure weight/shape In general, heavier lures will drop lower in the water column than lighter lures when all else is equal. When considering what lure weight to choose, think about the depth at which you will troll. If in medium or deep water, where in the water column would you like the lure to run. I don't think you can precisely dial in 10 ft depth, but you could probably get a lure into the 7-15 ft depth range. In addition to the weight, the shape of the lure (e.g., slender, fat, spinner blades, plastic bill on front, lots of wiggling) will make the lure run at different depths. You need to experiment to see what works -- and each day is likely to be different.

3) Type of line I use 20-lb braided line on all my trolling setups. Braid is very thin and has less water resistance than the same test weight line in mono, plus mono can be buoyant. When all else is equal, a lure on a braided line will run deeper than the same lure on a mono line of the same weight.

4) Length of line In general, longer lines off the reel will put your lures at deeper depths. Some anglers put a lot of thought into this point. I believe that Yak Fish (author of a kayak trolling book) often uses heavy revolving spool reels with line counters when trolling with heavy lures. He has great success using that set up. Most other kayak anglers are not using those heavy sophisticated reels and must rely on some other measure of depth. I typically troll 4 lines. The two rear rods have heavier lures. I toss them out to the side with a full toss then close the bail. The two front rods have lighter lures. I toss them out with a half toss, then close the bail. This is not a quantitatively precise system, but it does provide separation of my lures such that I rarely get tangles and am able to cover different depths.

5) Rod angle There is at least a small amount of depth difference related to the height off the water where you rod tip is. Consider a rod that is near the gunwales and set up horizontally to the side. Compare that to a rod that sticks up 45 deg or 60 deg. There will be 3-5 ft of difference in elevation in the rod tip -- this changes the angle at which the line hits the water. It also affects the running depth of a lure. I have often trolled in shallow water and see that there is an even shallower patch ahead. I can grab the rod with the heaviest lure out of the rod holder and raise it above my head as high as I can reach. I pedal through the shallow spot then put the rod back in the holder. This temporarily raises my lure in the water column and keeps my lure from dragging the bottom and snagging or getting fouled.

6) Other While trolling you begin a turn. If you make a sharp turn (and can successfully avoid tangling lines), the lines to the outer side of the turn will rise up in the water column and speed up while the ones on the inside of a turn will drop in the water column and slow down. For those few seconds during the turn, your lures are changing depth and speed. This may trigger a bite from a predator lurking nearby. You can simulate this effect somewhat by varying your trolling speed in pulses. I rarely use that method, but should think of trying it more often.

[manlystanley]

Great advice, thanks! I got my first Rock this past week, but I know I need more skill. I'm just throwing it out and hopping for the best. I've got some comments to your points:

Lure shape, affects depth: I never thought of that. So, I'd guess that a plastic with a larger tail would cause the lure to raise???

Rod Angle: Hmmmm...... I run two lines, one in the back at 60 degrees, and the second off the side, level to the water. So, I could cause the lure to change depths by raising the working the rod off the side.... Interesting. I really get a lot of hit's making turns, so this could be a nice little factor to try........

Making turns: I've noticed that. I'll that a try more. I never thought that the direction of the turn would after the lure on either side differently. Good point.

So, armed with my new found pointers, I'll give it a try Thursday.


Thanks,
Stan

[yakscientist]

Another factor is salinity, and while this might be difficult to figure out in real time in a yak, lures will always be more buoyant in saltier water. So if you're used to a lure swimming 5-6 feet deep in freshwater, and then are fishing in a fairly salty section of the CB, say 15-20ppt, it'll probably rise up a foot I would imagine. Although admittedly, I've never really fished from a kayak in freshwater, at least not seriously, so this thought really never occurred to me until now. It might not even make a huge difference, certainly a lot less than the other factors you mentioned. I overthink things. Sorry.

[supfisher01]

Great points made across the board!

Personally, I think trial and error will be your best tool for trolling. Like I said before, nothing is exact when it comes to lure depth, speed, and line length. It's consistency that you want to hone in on. If it works then keep doing it, if it doesn't, make slight changes in length of line, speed, lures, etc. Once you catch fish, repeat what you're doing, and hope for the same outcome.

When I say my lures might be at a certain depth, I'm only guestimating where I think they are.

[supfisher01]

Btw, good luck on Thursday!

[Big Mike]

If your fishing with a partner who has a depth finder they can "trail" you to see how deep you lure is running for those conditions. Probably more trouble than it's worth but would let you know with more detail what's going on.

[Crotalus]

I occasionally (sometimes intentionally, sometimes inadvertently) troll into shallower water and make a mental note of where my lures start hitting the bottom. It's been pretty consistent the depths certain combinations of jigheads and paddletails run, which allows me to choose the combo that will run the depth I am targeting.

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[Oldbayrunner]

This isn't exact but I find it to be a pretty good depth guide. This chart isn't for use with preset depth billed diving lures. Approx. weighted depths can be achieved with jig heads, inline sinkers or a combination of the two.

[yakscientist]

From my experience, I know my 1/4oz paddletail/jighead setups run from 1-3 feet deep usually (they're usually the ones that are hit most often, could be because that's usually the smaller paddletail too, a 4" one). I also know that the 1/2 oz setups I use run 4-6 feet, and the 1 oz run 8-10 feet, usually closer to 8, though sometimes I have scraped bottom if my depthfinder is reading 10ft. Again, like everyone said, there are tons of factors. I typically fish in water of 20 feet deep or less, so sometimes I will troll a 2oz bait, but only if my others haven't been producing, or I notice again and again that the fish I'm marking are all very deep. I doubt my 2 oz setups go deeper than 15 feet though, and I wouldn't want to troll more than 3 oz just because with a paddle kayak, you really start to notice the drag especially if there's wind too. Last year, I only really started catching keepers from mid august through mid November, and I typically got at least 1, usually 2 on every trip, and I noticed that most often my keepers came on the 1/2 oz setup with the slightly larger paddletail (5"). However, if I found a feeding school of somewhat large fish, the 1/4oz would be hit in equal proportions by 20"+ fish. I even came into a particularly hungry school, and my 1/4 oz was hit as I was resetting baits after catching my first keeper, it was a second keeper that bit the lure as it was just dangling maybe 4 feet deep off the side of my kayak. I would say, and this could be inaccurate, but my best guess in terms of keeper percentage would be like this: 1/4oz 35%, 1/2oz 45%, and the rest (20%) came on larger baits between 1-2oz.

[ronaultmtd]

I use a visual approach...but I have gotten all my preferred lures speed down pretty solid over the past six years of kayak fishing...try observing the action of the lure alongside the kayak...like John Veil, I tend to maintain a somewhat slower "all-day" trolling speed unless I am dragging spoons for Spanish Mackerel...it is very helpful to have a kayak that is somewhat easier to maintain a level trolling speed...if trolling isn't working for you, trying casting...my retrieve speed is the same as my trolling speed...

[manlystanley]

...... but my best guess in terms of keeper percentage would be like this: 1/4oz 35%, 1/2oz 45%, and the rest (20%) came on larger baits between 1-2oz.

Interesting. I only use 1 Oz jigs with 4 inch paddle tails. Maybe I'll get some smaller ones.

Best Regards,
Stan

[ronaultmtd]

I mainly use 1/8 and 1/4 oz jigheads...I have a few 3/8 oz. but nothing heavier...all of my fish come on those...in shallow flats I throw mostly 1/8 oz 3/0 hook jighead. In 8-15 FOW 1/4 oz 4/0 hook is my standard...if I were using 5 or 6 inch swimbaits I might be in the 1/2-3/4 oz range...I just received my order from Bomber baits for 25 red 1/4 oz. Shad 4/0 hook jigheads...that should last me a while...90% of my fishing is done with a 1/4 oz. jig- mix in XR10 Rapala, a #3 mepps spinner (white perch) and Tsunami popper and that is my arsenal...