Custom cut track systems

[smithmal]

Has anyone ever bought a track system for their yak and cut it down to a custom size to fit your needs? If so, what track system did you purchase and how did you cut it?

I'd like to put track on the back of my Native Watercraft Ultimate 12, but I'm not sure if I can purchase a straight Groove track and cut it down to my needs properly.

Thanks,

smithmal

[JohnE]

I cut gt175 geartrac from yakattack no problem. I used my metal cutting bandsaw. Angle grinder would be the next best option. If you can't get your hands on either of those, a metal hacksaw should work fine.

I have had the gt175 mounted on my outback for almost 3 years with no issues using just the included thread forming screws (no backing plate).

[willf650]

I put yak attack track on my Native Ultimate 14.5. My boat is of an age before gear track existed. I just bought the length I needed and put it in. It has mounting holes every 2" so it could easily be cut down.

I would buy the Yak Attack stuff before the native for a couple reasons.
1. It is lower profile then the Native track so if you aren't installing it in a recess it will stick up less.
2. It can be purchased pre-cut in multiple lengths so it can probably say you from the need to cut it.
3. It is slightly concave in the center so if the spot you are mounting it isn't perfectly flat it still sit on the surface with no gaps.
3. It has mounting hole every 2" so it can be cut down easily if needed with out the need to drill any new mounting holes.

[Mark]

Has anyone ever bought a track system for their yak and cut it down to a custom size to fit your needs? If so, what track system did you purchase and how did you cut it?

I'd like to put track on the back of my Native Watercraft Ultimate 12, but I'm not sure if I can purchase a straight Groove track and cut it down to my needs properly.

Thanks,

smithmal

I have not cut track. However, it's readily available in a variety of lengths. I've seen it as short as 4 inches. Mostly, I'm curious where you want to install it and what you want to attach to it.

If it's to attach rod holders, there is ample solid space on the triangular thwarts immediately behind the seat:

P1010542.jpg

That space will accept a Scotty Base Mount or other brands of mounts. Those base mounts would provide a solid platform for rods if that's what you intend to carry behind your seat. Or you can avoid cutting your boat altogether and mount the rods on a milk crate as I have done via Scotty mounts.

[smithmal]

Mark,

I have a boonedox landing gear I'd like to install on the yak. As I see it, I have three install options:

1. Install using the mounting brackets. Would rather not do this because if I sell the yak or get another one in the future I'd like the option of swapping the landing gear between the two yaks
2. Install a track system to the corner areas behind the seat (just like your pics suggest). This is how it is installed with other Native yaks that have tracks along the back sides of the yak. There's a video on YT showing how the landing gear brackets are installed into a groove track. The other benefit is if I'm not using the landing gear on this yak in the future, the track would allow me to add whatever accessories I wanted.
3. Devise some system of installing the landing gear without cutting holes into the yak. I rumminated on this option but have yet to come up with a way to install the landing gear firmly without going to option 1 or 2. Like you, if I can come up with an option that doesn't involve drilling holes in my yak, that is preferable.

If I go with option 2, I'm thinking I'll need two 4" or 6" pieces back there but groove track doesn't seem to sell them at that length. Like wilf650 said, I could go with a different track system but then I'd have multiple systems on the yak which would be weird if I where to sell it in the future.

Do people think I could cut a groove track section with a metal blade on my drop saw or use a metal cut off blade on my grinder and get a nice cut or have other suggestions?

smithmal

[Mark]

I had to look up Boondox Landing Gear. I didn't know what it was.

This is the cart I use:

AE.jpg

Lightweight, installs easily on the boat on land and while it is floating and requires no hardware to mount it to the boat.

http://www.paddlelogic.com/trailtreker-kayak-carts.html

Also less expensive than the Boondox.

However, if you already have the Boondox, you might want to visit the Native User's Group before you install it: http://nativeownersgroup.com/

I scanned through it and there was a discussion regarding issues surrounding the installation of Boondox and the long-term durability of the plastic under the mounts to sustain the stresses of the cart.

Good luck,

[J.A. Veil]

The Ultimate 12 is a light kayak. Although the Boonedox Landing Gear would probably work on that boat, I have not seen other Ultimate 12 owners going to those extreme measures (overkill). Other styles of carts, like the one that Mark shows, and the C-Tug that I use for a boat of similar size, work quite well and are less expensive. They quickly attach to your kayak without any hole drilling.

If you are determined to add gear tracks to the rear of your Ultimate, I have two brand new pieces of Native 12" gear track. If that is a size you want, we can discuss a price via pmail. If you do add gear tracks to an Ultimate, you would want to make sure you use backing plates and bolt the tracks in place rather than screwing them.

At the risk of sounding preachy, you purchased a simple, lightweight kayak. It will get you on the water and provide hours of dependable and enjoyable use. Adding a heavy and expensive accessory that is not really needed goes counter to the concept of a quick and easy fishing platform. The Landing Gear is being used by owners of much heavier kayaks. One downside of the Landing Gear is that it is always there on the back of your kayak. It adds weight, takes up space, and may restrict your ability to mount other items behind your seat (e.g., additional rod holders.

[jeepdawg]

I had to look up Boondox Landing Gear. I didn't know what it was.

This is the cart I use:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22127[/ATTACH]

Lightweight, installs easily on the boat on land and while it is floating and requires no hardware to mount it to the boat.

http://www.paddlelogic.com/trailtreker-kayak-carts.html

Also less expensive than the Boondox.

However, if you already have the Boondox, you might want to visit the Native User's Group before you install it: http://nativeownersgroup.com/

I scanned through it and there was a discussion regarding issues surrounding the installation of Boondox and the long-term durability of the plastic under the mounts to sustain the stresses of the cart.

Good luck,

I use a c-tug and although it works, i find it a major pain to get on the kayak when returning to the ramp. This is the first time I have seen this type of a system. Makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the post Mark......I think I will order one and give it a try!

Mark

[Mark]

I use a c-tug and although it works, i find it a major pain to get on the kayak when returning to the ramp. This is the first time I have seen this type of a system. Makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the post Mark......I think I will order one and give it a try!

Mark

There are trade-offs. With a C-Tug you can place the cart in the center of the hull, albeit with some difficulty. But when you do, the cart bears most of the weight of the kayak making it quite easy for you to roll. The Trailtreker attaches quite simply while the kayak is floating just as the video on the website shows. I enjoy that feature greatly. However, once attached, the wheels will likely align closer to the back of the kayak than they would on your C-Tug. That means you'll bear more weight of the kayak with the Trailtreker than you would with the C-Tug. Your Jackson boats are not light. Make sure you take that into account.

[smithmal]

I agree, the thought of owning a relatively light kayak only to add weight onto it seems counter intuitive. I actually thought very strongly about the cart that Mark spoke of and have even seen him use it in action. The newer version of Mark's cart is able to be broken down and stowed in your yak so you don't need to leave it on the beach and or walk back to your car to store it.

So why did I go this route? Mainly for the boonedox's ability to be lowered and raised while in the water. This video gives a pretty good description of how that is done (the OP really goes into the virtues of the Boonedox @ the 2:37 mark).

I was really impressed with how the landing gear can be actually raised and lowered while still in the water as you were leaving or heading back to shore. This means:

a. When heading out: no scratching of the hull when launching since you will not need to remove your cart before dragging the yak from the shore into shallow water (since the cart stays deployed until after you reach the appropriate floating depth and it can then be raised) and
b. When returning: no scratching of the hull when landing since you will not need to drag your yak out of the water onto shore to put on a cart (since your cart has already been lowered while still floating in the water).

Since the Boonedox wheels are raised along the outside side of the yak, the landing gear takes up very little room inside your yak so you can have room for whatever essentials you need (unlike the cart mentioned above that can be broken down and stowed in your yak which would take some room in the stern/bow storage.

In terms of weight, weight would be the biggest issue for me when raising or lowering the yak onto my roof. The Boonedox is designed so the wheels and accompanying legs can easily be removed to reduce weight. If you were putting the Boondox on a track then the whole assembly could easily be removed or added on when necessary. Boondox also sells different tires so you can swap your tires and legs if you have a long hike from beach access.

However, cost with this style of cart is a big issue. $250 for a cart is no small potatoes. I was able to get one for $120 on CL which further enticed me with getting the landing gear.

In terms of structural support due to the lightweight plastic structure of the Ultimate 12. I can see that being a problem if not properly supported.

Mark, what thread did you see posted on Nativeowners that discussed this? I inquired about the Boonedox on the this forum (which I'm a member) but got no reply. I get the feeling that that forum is not heavily populated. I did see this thread discussing putting a Boonedox on a Ultimate FX 15 in which the OP indicated "There is absolutely no stress on the thawat from using the landing gear."

Finally, I agree that it is a little overkill for a yak as light as the Native Ultimate 12 however, I looked at it like an investment that I could use with other yaks (especially heavier ones) if/when I upgrade since this system is extremely rugged. Thanks for everyone's replies.

smithmal

[Mark]

Mark, what thread did you see posted on Nativeowners that discussed this? [/I]

smithmal

Title of thread: Boondox Landing Gear Issue 30 May 2017

Also, my Trailtreker cart will indeed fold for storage. However, I choose not to do that. I don't take any carts with me on the water. I also leave my Revo scupper cart, easily carried onboard, in my van when I am on the water.

[smithmal]

Thanks for the info on the thread. You can find the link here.

I called Boonedox to speak with them about the best way to attach a Boonedox Landing Gear to a Native Ultimate. What they suggested is not using a track system at all. Boonedox is moving away from using Groove Track (or any track system) to installing the landing gear b/c track systems are not built or attached to the yak strong enough to deal with the type of weight/stress that the Boonedox knuckles are holding up. Over time, when moving the yak (especially for heavier boats that are all tricked out) you could see deformation of the plastic that the knuckles are attached to.

They suggested what others have suggested which is underneath the yak's plastic, cut out block of Ultra High Molecular Weight (UHMW) plastic (minimum 1/2" thick; link here) to the shape of the area that the gear track is being installed (in my case it would be the size of the two triangular thwarts directly behind the seat). Boonedox indicated that this type of material can easily be cut using a band saw or a jig saw. You should then drill through the boat and the UHMW plastic. Then, attach the landing gear "knuckles" by using a bolt that goes all the way through the knuckles, yak, underneath UHMW plastic and underneath Boonedox backing plates and you should have a strong platform for the Boonedox Landing Gear to attach to without worrying about deformation of the yak's plastic material.

smithmal

[Mark]

Thanks for the info on the thread. You can find the link here.

I called Boonedox to speak with them about the best way to attach a Boonedox Landing Gear to a Native Ultimate. What they suggested is not using a track system at all. Boonedox is moving away from using Groove Track (or any track system) to installing the landing gear b/c track systems are not built or attached to the yak strong enough to deal with the type of weight/stress that the Boonedox knuckles are holding up. Over time, when moving the yak (especially for heavier boats that are all tricked out) you could see deformation of the plastic that the knuckles are attached to.

They suggested what others have suggested which is underneath the yak's plastic, cut out block of Ultra High Molecular Weight (UHMW) plastic (minimum 1/2" thick; link here) to the shape of the area that the gear track is being installed (in my case it would be the size of the two triangular thwarts directly behind the seat). Boonedox indicated that this type of material can easily be cut using a band saw or a jig saw. You should then drill through the boat and the UHMW plastic. Then, attach the landing gear "knuckles" by using a bolt that goes all the way through the knuckles, yak, underneath UHMW plastic and underneath Boonedox backing plates and you should have a strong platform for the Boonedox Landing Gear to attach to without worrying about deformation of the yak's plastic material.

smithmal

Seems like a lot of unnecessary work to me given other cart alternatives. But I have an aversion to cutting my boats and adding weight to them. The important thing is if the Boondox aids the transport of your boat to your liking so that you use it often. I hope it does!

[smithmal]

Mark,

I agree. Hopefully the pro's of the Boonedox Landing Gear outweigh the cons of the install/weight issues. I will report back with pics once I have them installed. Maybe I'll be able to meet up with you on the water to show you them in action.

smithmal

[smithmal]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to report back that I completed my install of the Boonedox Landing Gear (BLG) on my 2017 Native U12. Following up on the concerns that Mark raised above regarding the thinness of the thwart material of the U12, I decided to call up Boonedox tech service to discuss it with them. They indicated, as Mark noted, that other individuals have had issues with the BLG, especially Native owners, b/c the BLG attaches to the yak using the back track system. Basically, the track system is not robust enough to deal with the weight and strain that the BLG places on it, and over time, there have been reports of the BLG causing the track system to deform.

With this new information, I decided against installing a custom cut track system onto my thwarts.

Luckily, the used BLG version I purchased, was not the Native version but the classic version which uses heavy duty metal brackets which are installed underneath the boat material allowing the BLG to be clamped to the yak using two sets of screws. Boonedox tech support suggested reinforcing the thwart material with a custom cut piece of Ultra high molecular weight (UHMW) polyethylene (1/2" thick). I purchased a 12" x 12" sheet of this material on Amazon and cut it down so it was similar to the shape of the thwarts behind the seat. I installed it underneath the thwarts using 1.5" 5/16" ss socket screws with a couple of ss washers and nylon coated ss nuts. Once installed, I drilled two holes to install the BLG onto each side of the reinforced thwarts. Because the UHMWP added an additional 1/2" thickness to the thwart, I replaced the BLG screws with 2" 5/16 ss socket screws. I then used those screws to clamp the BLG to the reinforced thwart using the included metal brackets.

As a bonus, the BLG also has built a built in track system on it allowing me to have a track system now behind my seat (which I'll use to add some trolling rod holders).

I went out to Liberty Reservoir this weekend to try it out. The BLG worked great, allowing me to install the wheels on the yak while still on top of my car, drop it to the pavement and wheel a fully loaded yak right into the water. After jumping into the yak and paddling a couple strokes, I was able to disengage the wheels. I also re-engaged the wheels while still in the water upon my return and was able to easily pull my fully loaded yak right out of the water and up a decent hill to my car without issue.

Thanks,

smithmal