winter purchases- talk me in/out of ugly stik striper and shimano baitrunner 4000D

[thedutchtouch]

i know these threads are probably tired, but hey, it's getting cold outside, and striper season is over...

like the title says, i'll be purchasing (2x) rods and reels to get ready for the switch from shore angler back to kayak angler. Plan for them to be my main on-kayak rods, with a bit of shore/surf thrown in though not the primary focus... to be used used for chunking, live lining, casting, i don't have any plugs right now but wouldn't rule that out, will be using the gx2's i already own for smaller fish/ caching bait and currently don't have the ability to have n+1 rods/reels like i'd like, so willing to compromise a bit here and there for an all around setup.

Reel: interested in a baitrunner style reel, so EDIT: now leading penn spinfisher VI 4500LL based on answer and some followup googling... was previously leaning towards the shimano 4000D, though i could go for the 6000D if it's a better choice, the extra weight doesn't really bother me. REEL SIZE IS AN AREA I'D REALLY APPRECIATE FEEDBACK since they all vary so much. I plan to use braid.

Rod: Ugly stik striper 7'MH. I'm a fan of ugly stiks, i understand the newer ones are different (i own some old stiks as well as 2 gx2 2 piece rods - UL and ML) that i use for freshwater and haven't had complaints thus far). from what i can tell people say the striper rod is similar to the gx2. it being white is a plus for me but not a dealbreaker if a different version stik (or other manufacturer) is better



I'm trying to keep the combos in the 200 or less range, am open to suggestions for other gear if anyone has strong opinions on these. I'd really appreciate feedback from people who have actually used the gear they're recommending (or not recommending), since i'm already on the more budget side of gear, i'll throw this out right away- avoiding kastking because i can't seem to find any reviews that talk about actual use, it's all unboxings that look like kastking sent a reel out for a free positive review. feel free to try to change my mind on that (or anything else above) as well.

thanks in advance for helping me beat this dead horse again. i've been searching, but... yeah.

[J.A. Veil]

I won't comment on your brand choices. Regarding size, I offer these thoughts. If you are looking for a rod that can be used for multiple types of fishing, you may do better selecting M power vs. MH. MH is a better choice for jigging, but M is better for casting and retrieving.

The 7' length is a reasonable choice, although I personally prefer 6'6" or 6'. But that is a personal choice.

Regarding reel size, unless you are consistently targeting really large or strong fish, a 4000 series reel may be more than you need. A 6000 series reel is definitely more than you need. I own 1000, 2500, and 3000 size reels and have never felt undermatched for the fish I catch in the bay from my kayak.

[yakscientist]

I would honestly suggest you lean towards the new Penn Spinfisher VI (newest model, came out this fall) live-liner. I would say the 2500 or 4500 size would be plenty for what you'd be using it for (the 4500 might have the extra capacity for some longer surf casting). It's supposed to have better internals than the current shimano baitrunners. However, if you can find an older shimano baitrunner, like the 4500B I have, go for that. They were made much better earlier on, but are harder to find now obviously.

For an inexpensive "baitrunner" type dual drag reel, I recommend the okuma avenger abf series, they're usually $50. I have the 50 size and it's definitely too big for light tackle casting, but it's the perfect size for trolling larger lures and for bait or surf fishing, particularly for large catfish. It's lighter than my baitrunner and probably only about 1/3 the price of a new one, but it certainly doesn't feel as well made or as powerful as my baitrunner. Both my dual drag "baitrunner" style reels are mated to 7' ugly stik bigwater rods, and the older style with the yellow and black color scheme seems to be the better made version but time will tell. I do know I only have ugly stik rods, and I'm noticing issues with 2 of my GX2/newer series ugly stiks, whereas my old ones (yellow ones) took years for any issues to manifest.

[rob-kayak]

Best wishes on your new purchases...
I am way to frugal to make reel purchases in the price ranges you are looking at and others have suggested.

I can truly appreciate quality equipment and their merits.
For me... this is an activity that losing equipment to King Neptune is a strong reality.
So I would say... if it doesn't pain you to lose them to the depths... spend to your hearts content.

I dropped my first rod and reel this summer as I was perch fishing... reaching back for another rod/reel and it got snagged and flipped into the water.. only about six feet.. but I couldn't find it. I should have gone for a swim.
And that was a super el'cheapo rod and some $15reel from Walmart.. that the handle had broken and I had repaired.
It pained me so... as it had caught many many perch...

I haven't spent more than $35 for a reel... and they work fine.. sure more money... better stuff... but the fish don't know the difference.

I make these comments.. for those reading.. that ain't got tons of money.. and the point is just get out and do it.

Most of my rods are about 7foot. I bought my first Ugly Stick this year.. not too expensive.. couldn't really tell you the difference but I like it. Some of my rods are pieced together from others I found in the trash.

If you do a lot of casting... I am sure there are differences.. trolling.. well... a piece of bamboo probably just as good.

My dearest rod and reel combo is over 40 years old... and I use it on every trip.
And it didn't cost much when I bought it...

Having beautiful equipment is great on the wall... when you touch and feel it.. and performs well.
King Neptune... just.. doesn't have much of an opinion...

I am sure you will enjoy your equipment which ever purchase you make... have a great new year.

[Mark]

Just a few thoughts and if weight truly doesn't bother you, you can stop reading.

I've never fished with Ugly Sticks but I've picked them up many times in stores and my initial reaction is that they are heavy for their given size. I really like St. Croix rods in all configurations from spinning to bait casting to fly. I know they cost more than Ugly Sticks but they are durable and lightweight. St. Croix makes a Triumph Series of rods that come in under $100. I have owned two of them for 3 years that are ML spinning rods, 6.5 feet, and they have never given me a moment's trouble. I use them in fresh and tidal waters for every thing from crappie to stripers. I pair them with a 2500 series reel, again for the low weight factor.

None of the fish I catch run far on the drag, including legal stripers. So the line capacity on a 2500 reel is plenty. I'm not targeting striper cows -- just the normal legal fish we typically catch from 19 to 25 inches while kayak fishing. Or the 20 plus inch channel cats we often ran into this year. The Triumphs handle those fish easily.

Regarding rod length, I have a 7 foot slow action rod that I use for topwater stripers. When seeking topwater stripers I may throw a long cast to open water. I don't have to land the plug in a precise spot. "Close enough" will do. The 7 footer gives me that capability for extra distance. But for accuracy in closer quarters, say casting to riprap or near docks, I prefer to throw a 6.5 foot rod from a seated position in my kayaks. I have more line control and accuracy with the shorter rod.

[rob-kayak]

Mark as always has great information...

My three goto.. not available anymore are Shimano Sienna 4000. Which on sale were $30... saltwater rated.
Because I troll mostly, line capacity is important...
And most importantly... I troll, paddling, four rods.
Which means I get a fair amount of tangles if wind and tide conditions are not favorable...
WHEN I catch a fish.
So cutting out line to get out of tangles is persistent.
Of course I use el'cheapo mono line... just my set up... expecting tangles.
Just some notes...

[thedutchtouch]

much appreciated all around, please keep an type of feedback coming, and ill try to explain a bit more of my reasoning. i've been fishing with ~ 20 year old gear that's pretty worn out and my new stuff is all cheap(er) combo rods/reels, the two gx2 setups i've fished for a year or two each with the shakespeare reels that come with them as a combo, so...cheap reels, but agreed that cheap is very functional. i'd started to get annoyed with some of the issues i've had on the reel side, but like the ugly stik rods well enough, thus the idea of jumping up in price point for the reel but sticking with the same for the rods. I also figure if i'm having crunchy bearing issues and drag problems with cheap reels in freshwater only, i'll likely have the same or bigger issues when i start introducing salt on a more regular basis, and ~150 for a reel seems like the lower end of "quality" pricepoint from what i've seen so far (of course if i forget about the baitrunner aspect that changes things too... anyone want to weigh in on if that's a dumb idea and i should just get a regular single drag reel?) i'd rather buy one or two reels at that pricepoint and use them for 10 years rather than a 40-50 dollar reel every other year or so like i have been (perhaps this is just talking out my arse to justify some new toys lol very possible)

I'm in my mid 30s and 6'2 so a longer rod or a slightly heavier setup is fine for now... all in all, i suppose its best to mull this over for a while yet, much appreciated for all the feedback so far, i'm definitely a newbie when it comes to this type of fishing and definitely have a lot to learn from you all.

[mike o]

I agree with the others a 2500 or 3000 reel is all you need. A 6 1/2' to 7' ugly stick would work fine. For a reel I would suggest a shimano stradick . They are a little pricey but they are worth it. You can find them on Ebay for around $160. I am a frugal guy but when I buy cheaper reels I am always disappointed. You could get a St Croix triumph rod, like Mark suggested and a stradick reel and have a really nice set up for around $260. It is painful if you lose one though.

[J.A. Veil]

Another way to step up in quality while keeping costs low is to pay attention to classified ads, like the Tackle Shop Forum here on Snaggedline, Craigslist, or Facebook Marketplace. For example, this fall I sold a bunch of new or nearly new St Croix Premier rods and one St Croix Triumph rod at a significant discount over retail. The lightly used ones had cork grips that were not as bright and clean as a new one, but the buyers saved a bunch of cash. Beginning next month there will winter fishing shows and flea markets each weekend for several months. At these events, the regular commercial dealers often offer some discounts. You can score even better by buying from fishermen who take tables to clear out old or unused gear. There are some really good deals to be had there.

I will put in a special plug for the Fishing Flea Market organized by Snaggedline member medicyaker (Tom Brown). The proceeds from that event go to help the Maryland Chapter of Heroes on the Water. It is scheduled for Jan 19 at the Odenton Fire Dept.

[Mark]

...I also figure if i'm having crunchy bearing issues and drag problems with cheap reels in freshwater only, i'll likely have the same or bigger issues when i start introducing salt on a more regular basis...

That's unlikely if you fish the mid and upper portions of the Bay and its tributaries. Freshwater gear works just fine and will last a long time with regular cleaning and lubrication. Cleaning can be as simple as spraying your rods and reels with freshwater from a hose after your outing. I've been doing that for years and have suffered no crunching bearings or rust. I've even taken the same equipment to the mouth of the Bay near the CBBT where the water is noticeably saltier, not regularly but enough times to cause a problem if the saltwater was going to damage my gear. It hasn't given my maintenance regimen.

Lastly, many anglers who transition from freshwater to tidal kayak fishing think they need larger and more expensive gear suitable for offshore use. They don't. I point to the surge in Light Tackle Jigging (LTJ) made popular by local writers and charter captains. Many of the latter even specialize in fly fishing to go along with their LTJ approach. You simply do not need heavy saltwater tackle to catch most of the fish we pursue from kayaks in the Bay. In fact, with respect to rods I heard a very popular fly rod maker admit on a podcast that there is no difference in the glues and guides they use on rods labeled for fresh or saltwater use.

Good luck in your search and get ready for many exciting fishing opportunities afforded by a kayak in our tidal waters.

[thedutchtouch]

thank you again. Mark, admittedly i do think i've got a bit of that issue. and probably trying to jump in headlong hwen i should just get out there and see what works.

[Redfish12]

Come to the flea market in Odenton and you can probably find what you are looking for. I would say that based on what you described to check out the ugly stick intercoastals at a Walmart. They are about $40 and have nice cork handles. I like the 6’6” bc it has the same number of guides as the 7ft, almost the same action (stiff enough to cast and retrieve paddle tails), and weighs less. Pair it with a Penn Fierce 4000LL and you will have a nice combo for what you are looking to do. I have two of these and use them for guests, live lining, and catfish. The other two series of uglys I would check out are the elite and the tiger lite. The striper rods are great for leaving in a holder or in a surf stand but not great on the kayak bc the butts are so long. The elite rods have graphite mixed in so you have more sensitivity for jigging but also the fiberglass you want for bait and trolling. The tiger lites are probably the number 1 recommended rod to new kayakers in the NE that want to troll tube and worm (NJ and north it seems), troll plugs & shads, eel, and live-line. With all of these I would say a 4000 sized reel will be more comfortable to fish (not just weight but bulk) and holdplenty of line for kayaking.

I have a 7ft ugly stik tiger lite in H and an okuma 40 abf with a spare spool. Let me know if you’re interested, otherwise I plan to sell at the flea market.

[Bayvalley1]

A lot depends on how you are fishing. The Ugly Sticks are fine for topwater, trolling and cranking but you will want a fast action rod for jigging. The trend for jigging stripers in the Bay is going toward medium or medium light power rod. There is little need for a heavy rod in a kayak since the yak itself absorbs some of the drag. As others have already mentioned stay away from rods with long handles for Kayak fishing because they don't stay in the rod holders well. As far as reels the Penn Fierce is probably your best bet for price and durability. More importantly is reel maintenance, you can make almost any reel last with proper maintenance. Rinse reel with freshwater after use and take a few minutes at least once a year to take it apart and lubricate. Enjoy!