Kayak designs

[ronaultmtd]

Been following some threads on kayak forums...the bow designs of the 2019 Hobie Outback is discussed at great lengths as is the front hatch seal. For the guys venturing out from beach launches in surf, going offshore in choppy water, this is a hot topic with pros and cons...since I have a 2016 Outback, it is all academic to me...but...designing the ultimate fishing kayak comes in stages...Minor improvements, tiny fixes come every year as each model gets used by hard core enthusiasts and provides feedback...my observation based upon my on the water time is the Ocean Prowler bow design is the ultimate wave cutter, the Outback hull is extremely stable and the front hatch is mostly useless...so if I could design a new Outback I would leave the cockpit of the 2019 as it is with the exception of elimination of the front hatch design...I would install a waterproof rectangular hatch in its place that has a positive locking seal...and the bow design would be a sharp, wave-splitting, rocker-flared design similar to the bow of Ocean Kayaks...seems so simple to fix the main objections and concerns...especially in the best selling, high-end fishing kayak that all other fishing kayaks are measured against...the flagship of the Hobie line is the Outback...and screwing around with the cash cow is not good business...the 2019 Outback design has its critics as well as those who love it...it is a departure from previous years incorporating features of other Hobie products. A minor bow modification and replacing the front hatch could resolve the critics objections without affecting the supporters support...

[Mark]

Hobie, nor will any company ever make the perfect fishing kayak, Ron.

There are too many tradeoffs between various attributes. Anglers who want stability foremost will sacrifice speed. That's a given based on hydrodynamics. Those who want a lot of storage and more personal space will buy more hull plastic by necessity and therefore will have to lug around heavier kayaks on land.

My Revo and my Ultimate could not be more different. Yet each has its niche for my fishing styles. I also adapted to each, accepting what cannot be changed about them while learning to enjoy their strengths. For the Revo I enjoy its speed and its relatively light package for a pedal kayak. It's also far more stable than people realize. However, storage is a challenge. I carry less gear on it as a result. My Ultimate is 20 pounds lighter than my Revo and much easier to transport. It's perfect for ponds and creeks but it's not my choice for an outing on open Bay waters. But neither has adversely impacted my fishing.

Your point about makers changing a good product is well taken. Native completely stopped production of its Ultimate for a year or so. I don't know why they did that other than to possibly direct customers to their more expensive line of boats. Fortunately they brought it back. Perhaps they recognized that there is indeed a strong demand for a basic fishing kayak. You see very few Ultimates in our area on the secondary market. I think that's because they're so functional, folks who get them hesitate to part with them.

I think Hobie has done a very good job in making changes to its Mirage Drive and seating over the years. Some of its hulls have been unchanged for a long time. They took a chance on changing the Outback. The market will ultimately drive where they end up. I'm sure Native is glad it never destroyed its Ultimate molds.

[ronaultmtd]

Yeah, you are right, Mark...yesterday was one outing that made me very, very glad I had the older bow design Outback...I was perch fishing back in Price Cove after launching from Jack Russell’s place on St. george’s Island probably a two mile or so distance when a sudden strong Southwest wind got up and never stopped blowing...if you are familiar with Piney Point/St. George’s Creek area, that is the absolute worst wind, that has the longest reach to build nasty swells and chop...in five minutes it went from an “oil slick” calm to cresting white caps...I would estimate the winds at sustained 18-20 gusting to 25...I immediately headed back to St. George's Island....as the washing machine chop built, my forward speed dropped to less than 2 mph and in some instances stopped while I positioned the bow to take the cresting white caps dead on...after an hour and a half of peddling the turbo fins as hard as I can, the breakwater of St George’s Island finally cut off the white caps and I was out of the washing machine...dozens of waves washed over the bow into the cockpit, but the Outback never felt the least bit unstable or tippy...I was completely soaked, not one dry spot on me...my sunglasses was a lifesaver by shielding my eyes from the salt water...after getting Lady Luck secured in its cradle in the bed of my Ranger Pickup truck, I opened the rear hatch where the Dakota battery is to see how much water leaked inside the hull from the repeated waves breaking over the bow...not much at all..maybe a cup...this is the major knock on the 2019- that the bow digs in as swells break over the bow and the front hatch leaks excessively...Hobie issued a gasket repair kit to address the hatch, but There are still lots of complaints about the hatch...I have only opened my front hatch to install the 9 inch HRail I used to mount my Lowrance Hook 2-7TS electronics...never use it otherwise...

[Big Boom Bassin]

Ron, I think the hatch seal issue has been resolved with this new fix from Hobie. They made good on the issue but it certainly doesn't alleviate the issue of water coming over the bow. I just got the 2019 PA12 a few months ago and I noticed the water coming over the OB bow almost immediately. Even if the hatch is sealed, that doesn't protect me and the last thing I want is to be getting soaked all day. I paddled in only slight chop so I can only imagine what it would be like in the great blue. I had an OK BGII before this and you are right that those are far more suited for cutting water. Each model has so many minor pro/con differences. You'd think it would be easier to make the ultimate yak. I suppose someone far smarter than me is out there designing this stuff though haha.

[Mark]

One of the things that has perplexed me about Hobie's hull designs is the concave front hatch cover on the Outback. Even though they have streamlined the bow, they kept the same front hatch shape. It seems to me that instead of shedding water, the concave hatch will allow it to pool on the hatch and possibly contribute to leakage through the gasket or at the very minimum contribute to a wet ride in rough seas. The Revo's front hatch is convex and it has been that way for years. One of the things I enjoy about the boat is how it handles rough water. Its sharp bow cuts through waves and while it will take water over the hatch, it quickly rolls off due to the slope of the hatch cover. The water over the bow does not reach me in my seat. I've owned two Revos and neither has leaked from the front hatch, nor anywhere else for that matter.

As many of you know, Hobie is quite popular in Australia. Occasionally, I'll log into Australian Hobie chat lines. While many here in the U.S. worry about the Revo's slender beam, and its stability, in Australia it's considered an offshore kayak because of its seaworthiness in big water.

[ronaultmtd]

Mark...your observation...That one simple change of the front hatch cover from concave to domed would solve so many issues...and be such a minor costs fix that it could be a really affordable retro fit for all Hobie Outbacks...imagine if it was sold as an after market kit by someone like Berley Pro?