Young of Year survey

[Big Mike]

They released the young of year survey for rockfish. Unfortunately it was an index of 2.5 against an average of 11.5. Another rough spawn for them.

[rugbyfish]

Certainly not the news I wanted to hear. I did read that it was a good year for croaker though. Maybe they’ll make a comeback. The speckled trout fishery this year was incredible, so I’m hopeful that returns as well.

[Mark]

That is very disappointing. I thought the weather was favorable this year. Also, I had hoped that something positive would have resulted from the COVID lockdown which kept many anglers at home during the late winter and early spring sparing more fish.

I read that white and yellow perch numbers were down along with the stripers. But I cannot find the data. Nor can I can find the DNR's interpretation of the data, if it exists. If anyone here can provide a link. I'd appreciate it.

Perhaps the changing MD striper regulations will take years to bear the results we'd like to see.

On a positive note, I recently watched a Zoom presentation that cited the ability of striped bass to rebound in abundance. A key factor is their longevity. Some of the females live over 30 years. Good and bad years of reproduction are expected with weather playing a role in the results. The older females counter the bad years by getting many opportunities in their lifetimes to spawn. It's their built-in safeguard to survive -- as long as we act responsibly to help them. And I believe most of us on this forum do.

[ronaultmtd]

Specks and puppy drum...mild winter is key for their survival...as long as there is no prolonged below zero over night temperatures, they should return...but that won't add numbers of stripers...

[mudskipper]

I'm afraid we're starting to see the effects of the exploding Blue Catfish population that has beset the bay tributaries and upper bay. Same thing has happened in the James and Rappahannock rivers in the preceding decades since Blue Cats were stocked in the lower James by VDGIF in the 80's. Now up to 70% of the fish biomass in the lower Rapp is Blue Cats. When I caught the first Blue at Allen's Fresh many years ago, I knew the Yellow Perch run was going to be going downhill, and it surely did. The last few years when I lived in Shadyside, all we'd ever catch from the community pier was Blue cats, when in the years before, it was the typical bay mix of species.

The Blues eat anything they can - including YOY and yearling Stripers. And crabs. And spawning perch. Everything.

People thought the Snakehead would be the fish that ate the bay. Nope. It will be the Blue Cat.

I kill every single one I catch.

[HJS]

I think this topic was discussed in snaggedline a while back, not sure though. But still, I’ll insert the 2 important links. The first is showing the 2020 YOY results for striped bass (plus 14 addition species) in the Chesapeake Bay. The second link shows results of similar striped bass studies conducted during 2020 in Virginia’s section of the Bay.

Maryland result for 2020. Scroll down and click on striped bass data. Definitely not a good year for striped bass reproduction in Maryland waters. https://dnr.maryland.gov/fisheries/p...ile-index.aspx

Virginia results for 2020. Virginia had a decent hatch of striped bass this year, highest hatch they had since 2011 when they had a record breaking hatch. https://www.vims.edu/newsandevents/t.../sbss_2020.php

[DanMarino]

Did the MD DNR ever post the YOY results for Upper Potomac smallmouth?

[mudskipper]

Did the MD DNR ever post the YOY results for Upper Potomac smallmouth?

IIRC, they did. I thought I saw it on another thread somewhere here, but I remember a link to the DNR's page that had a report on it.

Cliff's Note's:

2020 was another bad year. Seine samplings at test locations on most of the upper Potomac showed below 1.0 YOY fish, including everything below the Dam 4 and Dam 3 sections of the river, all the way down to the DC area. 1.0 fish is considered the normal "baseline", and the only part of the river that was consistently above that 1.0 figure was the Paw Paw and places upstream.

Just too much damn rain in the spring the last 3-4 years in a row. And for a fish that doesn't usually live more than about 5-6 years on average, 4 bad years in a row will crater the population.

It's already happened, really. The last couple years, I've noticed that the dominant predator fish in the river are now Channel Catfish, instead of smallies, Back in September, we were paddling the stretch of river between Brunswick and Point of Rocks, and we saw a HUGE school of young Channel Cats. When I say "huge", I mean literally THOUSANDS of them, all bunch together, all about 5-7 inches long, swimming in a tight school on the bottom. Looked like a gray-blue carpet, about 50 feet in diameter, mowing over the bottom. I've never seen catfish school like that, packed together like sardines in the ocean.

Cats are summer spawners, so they don't get affected as much by spring flooding as basses and sunfish do, so their numbers have exploded, from three factors - better spawning conditions in the summer, less predation by bass, and more food available to them due to less competition from bass. There's probably a Doctoral Thesis at work there for someone observing it, lol.

But yeah, the Potomac sucks right now for smallies.

Pray for springtime droughts the next few years. Because that's the only thing that will turn it around at this point.

And keep every Channel Cat you catch. Might as well take advantage of the population boom.

[DanMarino]

Boo.

[HJS]

mudskipper - I've seen that same phenomena with channel cats a time or 2 on the Potomac. Last time was over a decade ago while fishing at Dickerson I saw 2 schools of dense packed fingerling catfish each one no bigger than my index finger. Both schools were about 10' in diameter and 20 ' apart. I was able to wade right up to them. They were in shallow water and so dense I couldn't see bottom thru the schools. Most amazing to see up close.

[nhunter344]

I won't say that commercial and recreational overfishing is the main culprit, I dont have the data to support. I can say that it doesnt help the situation. Until VA DWR, MD DNR and/or ASMFC step up and actually do something to address the problem instead of caving to commercial interests, I honestly don't have much hope.

I don't know the answer and couldn't find it online after a brief search, but have any state/federal agencies offered subsidies to commercial fisherman/charters in order to offset drastically reduced catch quotas? I cant think of any other idea that would allow catch quotas to be reduced to the level where the fishery can recover. The main pushback from reducing catches has always started on the commercial side with the "How am I supposed to make a living?" argument which is quickly followed from the recreational side with the "Well, if they can catch fish, why cant I?" argument. I wont even go into the part where companies like Omega willfully disregard catch quotas and deplete the menhaden that stripers depend on.

Like I started with, you cant pin the blame on any one source, its a complex, multi-faceted problem, but the unwillingness of the powers that be to implement any kind of meaningful measure to restore populations doesnt bode well. Until they do, the best we can do is follow the example of many people on this forum and self-regulate ourselves.

Apologies for the rant. Honestly, I really enjoy fishing but Ive caught enough in my lifetime to last me. What really gets under my skin is the uncertainty that the future holds for my son to enjoy it in his lifetime.

[CHOC]

I am fully in support of a moratorium. It's the only thing that will take some pressure off of the fishery and allow it to recover. After the moratorium iis over in 5-10 years, there should be a one fish per boat slot between 18-27 inches, just like redfish are managed all up and down the east coast.

This wouldn't be so bad. There are plenty of other fish to target. Redfish, speckled trout are still biting NOW. Spanish in the summer.

Lots of guys target smallmouth, catfish, largemouth, pickerel, perch (both yellow and white).

Unfortunately, human beings cannot be trusted with the striped bass population. So we should treat them like children and take them away for awhile. It's like when you tell your kids they can't watch tv for a week. Unfortunately, you can't watch it either.

[mudskipper]

I am fully in support of a moratorium. It's the only thing that will take some pressure off of the fishery and allow it to recover. After the moratorium iis over in 5-10 years, there should be a one fish per boat slot between 18-27 inches, just like redfish are managed all up and down the east coast.

This wouldn't be so bad. There are plenty of other fish to target. Redfish, speckled trout are still biting NOW. Spanish in the summer.

Lots of guys target smallmouth, catfish, largemouth, pickerel, perch (both yellow and white).

Unfortunately, human beings cannot be trusted with the striped bass population. So we should treat them like children and take them away for awhile. It's like when you tell your kids they can't watch tv for a week. Unfortunately, you can't watch it either.

Then let’s make the discussion REAL interesting:


Are you willing to pay a fine everytime you unintentionally catch a striper?


Because that’s the natural extension of your heavyhanded approach. And technology might actually make it possible one day, maybe sooner than we’d think. All it would take would be a phone app that required the camera to be on and able to see your hands, as a condition of your fishing license. AI would recognize and identify fish, and you’d be fined accordingly for every accidently caught rockfish. And you’d have to have the app running in order to lawfully be on the water fishing. Turn your phone off and that’s an automatic fine, plus loss of license. This would be cake with existing 5G technology. No more “catch and release stripers” while wink-and-a-nod “targeting” other species. Every one you catch would be a $10 fine, if returned to the water alive and unbleeding. Gill hook or gut hook one, and the fine is $50. How about that? Think this is all crazy talk? Why? I just thought it up in the 30 seconds it took to read your post. If I can do that, literally anyone else could too.


Because that’s where the road from “moratorium” leads to, here in the the 21st century. If our governmental masters don’t trust people and want to treat them like children, as you said you would - then you can get they will. Especially if there’s the prospect of collecting big fines from violators. Look how speed cameras popped up everywhere. It’ll be the same way. Never underestimate the lengths government will go to to squeeze money out of you and give it to someone else who voted for them. Ever.

I’m old enough to remember the moratorium of the 80’s, and how much that sucked, even as a kid. And you want to take us back there, but in a time where Big Brother technology exists.

Bad idea.

[PigPen]

I wouldn't go for a fine unless it somehow went to real efforts to help the population. I'd add that trying not to catch stripers can be impossible when fishing for perch so maybe the offense should be for using treble hooks.

A real penalty should be some public shame for hurting a young striper especially when its warm out.