I need your input on a Mothershipping guide service

[CHOC]

Hey, kayakers! Looking for your input on something.

I have a kayakers guide license but only used it once or twice for taking folks with two kayaks and using my gas powered Solo Skiff to move them around, anchor them etc. Long story short, the learning curve for the DMV yuppy is too steep to be able to get them up and going in and catching fish in a day.

I’m thinking about starting a mother-shipping service with my center console. Essentially, I’d launch from Solomons and take people to the Eastern Shore islands (Hoopers, Bloodsworth, Smith, etc). Places that really have very few launches and are almost impossible for kayakers to get to. I know lots of spots to tuck people away when it’s rough. I’d provide lunch and water/soda/beer. Trips would probably last 8 hours with 6 hours of fishing.

My questions:
1. What’s a reasonable amount that you would pay for such a service?
2. Would you expect the service to provide you gear or is this something for the seasoned kayaker that would prefer to bring their own?
3. Would you have been more interested when you were first getting into the sport or now?
4. If I provided gear, would people be more into kayaks or stand up paddle boards?

Thanks in advance,

Crazyhorse

[J.A. Veil]

Grant -

Here are a few thoughts. I did a mothership trip once with a captain who had never done it before and was trying to do things casually. Things did not go well. Nobody was hurt, but some expensive gear was lost.

- If you are taking money from customers for a boat trip, you probably need to have a Coast Guard license (6-pack or higher). This involves a lot of study and taking some rigorous exams. There are other ongoing expenses associated with holding a Captain's license.
- If you are doing any guiding, above and beyond just transporting kayaks, you may need a DNR fishing guide license at a higher level than the kayak guide's license
- You would need to have an arrangement for holding the kayaks in place while you drive across the bay to the drop-off point. Maybe some cradles or racks. I believe your current center console is relatively small. Space will be at a premium for kayaks, gear, and people. The ride from Solomons to the eastern shore island is a long run over open water (for example, 15 miles to Hoopers Island; 22 miles to Bloodsworth Island). Weather can change rapidly, and you may not be able to ride across quickly or easily when heavily loaded with passengers and cargo.
- Providing non-alcoholic drinks as part of a paid service is fine, but if you include beer, you may need to have a liquor license. Regarding beer, if you do have to get a Coast Guard license to operate the boat, you would not be allowed to drink alcohol during your trips (zero tolerance policy for a captain).
- Make sure you have adequate insurance.


I won't answer your questions, since I personally am not likely to do another mothership trip. I am not really your target audience.

[Big Mike]

As far as price, it better be less than guides like Walleye Pete charge for a full day.

Like John, I’m not your target audience as I see nothing but problems in a mothership trip. The lure of “new” water can’t overcome the sheer number of things I see going wrong.

[CHOC]

John and Mike,

Thanks as always for your input! Definitely a lot to consider.

[ronaultmtd]

This topic comes up from time to time but most of us have rigged our kayaks with electronics, mounts, rod holders, anchor trolleys, etc. and trying to safely load, unload and transport more than two kayaks on a charter boat of reasonable size that can safely navigate 22 miles of open bay...most of us would be very reluctant to consider the risk of damages to our kayaks, and our tackle let alone pay the price necessary for a captain to make a profit. There would need to be some very innovative engineering of racks to store and secure kayaks...

[Mark]

Grant,

I see no market for it.

11,684 -- That's the number of shoreline miles of the Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries. There are countless sheltered places to launch kayaks to catch the same fish you'd target in the areas you mentioned.

Aside from the that, as John pointed out, the licensing and liabilities you'd face would be enormous. You'd better have a lawyer on staff.

[Slobber Bob]

Grant,
11,684 -- That's the number of shoreline miles of the Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries. There are countless sheltered places to launch kayaks to catch the same fish you'd target in the areas you mentioned.

What Mark stated above is a big reason I've never considered a mothership. The places you're proposing don't provide anything different in terms of fish habitat or species that I can't already access by just using any of the free public launches on the Eastern Shore. For me, a mothership would have to provide a truly unique fishing experience I can't do on my own - something like offshore pelagics. I'm not sure that unique experience exists in the bay since much of the bay species can be caught within kayak range from a launch if you plan right.

[ILV2F5H]

Good points across the board from everyone. I always hear about mothershipping which sounds good and all but from a logistics and investment point it may not be worth it? Playing devil's advocate here but all of the things that can go wrong with the yaks coincide with transporting your boat to any destination, whether its on a trailer or on your roof. I agree there is more room for error if the "precious cargo" is in a small boat and not secured properly. I think the allure of the Eastern Shore is real but I agree that you can catch the same species by doing a little more research in terms of google earth or traveling a little bit further south.

Choc - to answer your questions:

1. What’s a reasonable amount that you would pay for such a service? --Maybe $50?
2. Would you expect the service to provide you gear or is this something for the seasoned kayaker that would prefer to bring their own? --Most likely bring my own but if you provided a net or ruler. I'd leave mine at home. Less gear to pack.
3. Would you have been more interested when you were first getting into the sport or now? --Hard to say but leaning towards earlier into the sport.
4. If I provided gear, would people be more into kayaks or stand up paddle boards? --Def kayaks, of the pedal variety.

[Mark]

I was on the mothership trip that John V. mentioned.

A variety of things went wrong including a big scratch on my then Hobie Revo as my boat was loaded onto the deck. (And you probably know from my posts here that that did not sit well with me.)

The intentions of the trip were good. We were taken to a barrier island off the coast of Virginia. Clearly, we could not have reached that island on our own.

Indeed it was beautiful as we fished the shallow waters between the island and the mainland. However, I don't recall that our catches were remarkable. We were on our own, unguided in new waters for us. The guide merely dropped us off.

However, most disturbing issue was that the guide did not understand the tides in the area. When he came to pick us up at the agreed upon time, he could not get his boat close to the shoreline of the island. Nor did he suggest an alternate pick-up spot so that we could safely load from shore. We had to hoist our boats from waste-deep choppy water. That's when one member of our crew lost his Mirage Drive. It disappeared into the thick sea grass that covered the bottom. Then we had to crawl over the gunwales of the boat to get ourselves onboard -- not an easy task for some of our 60 plus year-olds.

What were we after? Primarily specks and reds. Granted, they were not as prevalent that year as they have been this year in the southern Bay. But as the SMOG crew have shown us here, you don't need a mothership to catch them now in the Chesapeake.

Or if you're itching to try new waters for those species, and have the resources, kayak guides in FL and TX can take you to them with relatively short paddles from shore. Specks and reds are routine catches for kayak anglers in those states.

[RavensDfense]

Choc,

All of the above stated by others is true. I don’t think they are trying to deter you but simply let you know what you are in for and the increased requirements you’d need. I won’t touch on those but I will share some of my experience with you in hopes you have success if you choose to move forward.

I’m pretty sure you’d need 6 pack license to transport paying anglers in your boat, but I’m not 100%. You’d most definitely want insurance. I’ve had some experience taking guided kayak fishing trips through the Hobie First Cast program. We fished remote places along the shore, including some bigger water on the ESVA. I promise you that most anglers will not be like yourself and will likely need assistance. People often overestimate their abilities and sending four ppl off on their own is a lot like herding cats. I think I read on another post that you decided to switch to the BOTE paddle boards. That makes sense from a transportation standpoint, but makes it incredibly more difficult from a client appropriateness standpoint. The majority of ppl are not coordinated enough to use a paddle board, yet alone cast and fight fish from one. Be prepared for lost rods/reels. You’ll also have a much shortened season unless you plan on providing cold water gear to your anglers. Most don’t have suitable gear for April temps. The water is still in the low 50’s at that time and on a paddle board that’s no good.

Despite all these challenges, guiding, in my experience, was incredibly rewarding. I thoroughly enjoyed it for the relatively short time I did it. Good luck in your adventure. I hope you find a market where others have not.

[CHOC]

Thank you all for your feedback. I know some of you personally, so I take the feedback as a gift, not as criticism of the idea.

Still, I have received a LOT of positive feedback from a variety of other sources. I feel like I could likely book 10 trips in the next few days if I was set up to do so.

RavensD, I'm looking into the 6 pack license. I agree that I will likely need one. There's a potentially loophole in that the actual service occurs when they start fishing from the kayaks (which I'm already licensed to guide). I'm going to get DNR on the horn on Monday to ask.

Also, I will likely get two BOTE paddleboards, and two Ocean Kayaks. I've been advised that Ocean kayaks make a reasonably priced simple vessel that's great for beginners and most importantly, lightweight. The paddleboards are important because it opens me up to a larger market of people that want to go to the lower Eastern shore islands just to paddleboard, and are not interested in fishing. I've been talking to a guy that does this and he says that over half of his business is paddlers that want to paddle through nature. But the kayaks will definitely be needed. I am also going to rig my boat so that I can take 2 reasonably sized kayaks if people bring their own. I'll put a weight limit on it and require that a picture of the rig be sent first.

Lastly, as Mark and John dismayed about their experience, I will NOT be just dropping people off. I intend on providing an entire experience, including icing and measuring fish, taking pictures of the fisherpeople (so PC of me!) catching, offering advice (tackle, locating structure on my side imaging). Of course, if people want privacy, I will stay within radio distance. I will also plan on moving people several times during the day if a spot is unproductive.

Some of you might be right. The market may just not be there. However, I'm not quitting my 9-5 so it's not like I'm putting my livelihood. I believe that marketed correctly, with a full array of services and the overall experience, this could be a niche thing that puts a little extra in the toy fund.

[Mark]

Grant,

I think it's key that you stay with your clients.

I wish you much success.

[Memory Maker]

I think the market is there but you will probably have to charge more than many would want to pay because of the costs, licenses and liability but good luck to you if you decide to do it. You are the one that might be able to do it successfully where others haven’t