Propel Drive vs Mirage Drive

[UnkleRob2020]

I am very intrigued by the Native Slayer Propel 10 and also the Max. I feel like I want to do more trolling this year and the pedal drive might be worth the extra money, provided i can still cartop the boat. The max sounds great because I am not very handy and some of the features are things that I would have difficulties installing on my own.

I have never used a pedal drive before. When I look at the Native Propel Drive, I cannot help but wonder how durable it is, meaning how easy is it to damage if I hit a rock, log or run aground? I think that at first I will be likely to forget that I need to allow extra space for the drive.

If I am thinking of the either the Hobie Compass 10 or the Native Slayer Propel 10 (or max), what would you suggest?

Thank you,

Rob

[UnkleRob2020]

What I meant to say is that the Mirage drive looks like (to me, a novice) that it might hold up better if I hit an obstacle or run aground. Perhaps there is something about the propel drive that makes it durable that I am missing? Thank you everyone

[J.A. Veil]

Pedal drive kayaks are popular but are more expensive than paddle kayaks. They allow the user to continue moving while keeping hands free to wind in a fish or do other things. Some offer easy reverse motion, others less so.

I am not going to push you toward either one of these good kayaks. If possible, test both models (and maybe other brands too) to see which has better seat comfort and features and which of the pedaling motions ("stair-stepper" vs. "cycling") you like better. I have used both drive systems (I used Native pedal drives on many more trips than Hobie) and can see differences in how they perform.

Regardless of which pedal drive model you choose, keep in mind that you will have a complicated mechanical device that does require some maintenance and care. Under normal use, they all are pretty durable. Hitting rocks or other hard objects at speed can damage either type.

[goldenyearspa12]

the new mirage drives collapse if u hit something or i should say the fins retract. i personally would go with the mirage drive i had mine foe years no problem. use clp breakfree mil spec lubricant is without a doubt the best. my opinion

[summersoff]

Have both, Revo and a Slayer, and I like them both, but i lean towards my Slayer. The propel reverse is so easy to use and with the new weed guard makes it stupid easy (I had to add the weed guard to my older slayer).
The new 10’ Max looks amazing, but good luck finding one. I would sell my Revo in a second if I knew I could replace it with a Slayer 10’.

[Mark]

I once hit a submerged chunk of concrete at full speed at Goodhands Creek in my 2012 Revo. I was hustling back to the launch, really driving the pedals hard and leaving a wake. That block is still there and I assure you I'm cautious at the location now. I bent both shafts significantly on my Mirage Drive. The amazing thing was that the drive still worked after the collision stopped me dead in the water. I used it for weeks like that. I tried to straighten the shafts but they are hardened steel -- which shows you how hard I hit the concrete. I replaced the shafts and all was well.

My present Revo has reverse which is a nice feature but not the collision-ready shafts. That's OK. I'm more careful with it than I used to be, especially at Goodhands.

Many think of the pedal drives as ideal for for trolling. That is often the main reason they choose a pedal kayak. I'm not an avid troller. I troll in tidal water mainly when traveling from point A to point B. I'll toss out a line to see if I can get lucky.

Aside from getting where I want to go, and occasionally trolling, I pedal most of the time to cast to structure. I can move in and out around docks and piers. I can fish shorelines moving forward and backward, tapping the rudder control occasionally to follow the contours of the shoreline.

Pedals are also nice to hold position in wind. I have no anchor on my Revo. I don't need one.

However, I leave my Revo at home when fishing vegetation-choked Eastern Shore ponds. I once I took it to Mattawoman...just that once. I spent too much time removing hydrilla from my drive. Paddle-driven boats are much better in weedy situations in my opinion.

Another thing to consider, especially if you are fishing in skinny water, is that unlike propeller driven boats, you can draw the the Mirage Drive fins close to the hull and still move forward. That's helpful to me when I am casting in shallow water or encounter a sandbar. You'll learn to raise the fins automatically when necessary. It beats pulling up the drive and resorting to a paddle.

Overall, the type of drive you use is a personal choice. The in-and-out pedaling of motion of the Hobie is efficient and comfortable to me. I can do it for hours with no discomfort. To others it may not be. I've only tested the circular pedaling motion in a kayak a few times. So I have no long-term basis to compare.

[dsaavedra]

There are some fundamental differences between propel drives and fin drives (not limited to Native and Hobie, either). One big difference, and one that might interest you if your primary goal is to do trolling, is the propulsion efficiency. Propel drives will cavitate under water, essentially just spinning in place without pushing you forward, if you put in enough energy to spin the propeller faster than it can push your boat. I've never used a propel drive but from all the videos I've watched users can usually feel when this is happening. Fin drives do not behave this way and the more energy you put in the more propulsion you get out. How much this matters is a personal preference and depends on your fishing style... is getting from point A to B as fast as possible really important to you? Or would you be moving along at a leisurely pace all the time, making this point less important?

Ergonomics is also a thing to consider. Cycling motion of propel versus pushing motion of fins. Some people might find one more comfortable than the other. On this note, propel drives require you to move the pedals in a full 360° cycle to make forward progress, no matter how slow you want to go. With fins you can push the pedals back and forth just a couple inches, little baby kicks, to scoot along slowly. Kind of nice when you're feeling tired or lazy, or when you're slowly moving along a shoreline casting as you go.

Speaking of little baby kicks, you can operate fin drives in much shallower water than propel drives by pushing the fins up against the hull with the pedals as far apart from each other as possible, and just moving them an inch or two. This "flutter kicking" style can scoot you along nicely. No option like this for most propel drives, you'd need to pull your drive and use your paddle. I think one manufacturer (Jackson or Wilderness Systems, maybe?) makes a propel drive that can recess up into the hull a bit while still remaining functional which allows you to operate in shallower water. On the topic of shallow water, some newer Hobies have "kick-up fins", where the fin will disengage if you hit bottom or a log or something, then snap back in place when you are free of obstacles. This keeps you from bending your fins all up. You mentioned you think you'd be likely to forget your additional draft when you first start out in the pedal drive kayak - I was the opposite... I was hyper aware of it on my first few trips to the point that I limited places I fished because I was scared of running the drive into stuff. Now I am much more comfortable in my pedal kayak and can fish just about anywhere... sometimes I do run the drive aground if I venture too shallow while fishing but they generally hold up well to this kind of light mistreatment... it's not like I'm smashing into logs at 7 mph .

Noise is a consideration. I think propel drives generally have more moving parts, and are noisier than fin drives. Both can be noisy though if they are not cleaned and well maintained.

Weedlessness - fin drives are generally less prone to snagging weeds and junk but I've heard good things about the weed guard that Native is putting on their new Propel drives. Neither one will stand a chance if you're fishing water that is truly choked with thick weeds like hydrilla matted on the surface.

Instant reverse - propel drives make this simple, you just pedal backwards. Fin drives require you to either use your paddle, remove the drive and flip it around, or in the case of newer MD180 Hobies, pull a lever to shift into reverse (or in the case of the really new MD360 Hobies, just steer backwards). Instant reverse is probably the most polarizing difference between propel drives and fin drives. Some people feel like they can't live without it, others don't even notice it's missing. It really depends on your personal fishing style. If you like to fish close to cover and pluck fish out from docks, fallen trees, etc., you might appreciate the ability to pedal backwards while fighting a fish so your boat doesn't get pulled into the cover and blow up your spot. If you prefer power fishing and quickly covering a lot of water while casting at key targets (or if you plan to just troll around), instant reverse may not be as important to you.

There's a million videos on the subject on Youtube, but it can be hard to find unbiased videos that aren't trying to sell you one or the other. When I was shopping for my pedal kayak I did a lot of research and found this video to be a helpful and unbiased comparison of the two styles, despite it's clickbait title: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9W1q8SPDmE&t=1s There are some other good comparison videos but this one stood out to me. My advice is to do as much research as you can/want, really think about how you want to use your pedal kayak (ask yourself "why do I want a pedal kayak instead of a paddle kayak, what will pedals allow me to do that I couldn't do before"), and definitely demo some boats with both types of drives if you can!

[Huntrava]

My personal opinion, recognizing there's no shortage of opinions on this topic, is that the Mirage Drive edges out propeller drives on virtually all factors except for instant reverse, and that's a big one.

In my PA12, I find myself constantly circling or dealing with anchors when trying to lock into a specific location, something that propeller-driven yaks don't have to deal with. Even the new Hobies require putting a drive into reverse mode, or steering backwards, which is a huge improvement, but still more involved than simply peddling backward. For some people that may not matter, which is why this is such a subjective topic, but these days I'm of the opinion that the best drive is the one that gets you on the water.

[ronaultmtd]

I can't use a bicycle type motion on my bad knees...no ACL in my right knee and meniscus tears in my left knee...the stair stepper motion of the Mirage drive is the exact same rehab therapy my orthopedic surgeon had me on after my fourth knee surgery...and here I am years later still going...and I have not replaced either knee- from my very limited personal medical situation...it is all settled for me...

[Oldbayrunner]

With my knees I can't use either but from my experience of being with others who have Mirage Drives and Centralized Propeller Drives, if one is in grass then it's either one better have some type of weed guard or one is forced to pull the motor up and paddle. The other advantage I have noticed is the Mirage Drive kayaks ability to feather the blades and propel in a lot shallower water vs a propeller drive. It's the same principle I use when people discuss using a trolling motor through a central opening vs using a tiltable transom mount system. I can propel through the same type of areas where others with central motors would need to pull their propeller drives up.

[ILV2F5H]

Just wanted to say that these are all really good comments and a reminder of the knowledge that this group has to offer. I was in exactly the same boat a year ago when I was debating on a OT Predator or a Hobie Outback. That instant reverse is hard to beat but shallow water “flapping” is also a great feature. I went with the Outback with a mirage drive and couldn’t have been happier. I almost purchased a Predator this weekend to use as an alternate or for my wife but couldn’t justify the purchase. My wife basically said no even though it was it was a great deal on the secondary mkt. womp womp