Estimating speed while trolling

[MDFishin]

So while I was trolling by the bridge the other day I was having a hardtime estimating my water speed. I don't have a gps currently, or a fish finder, I hope to get a FF soon. My question is how do you guys estimate speed when trolling, whether peddling or paddling. Or do you all have gps?

[Southerly]

i think the normal speed of a yak thru water is about 3mph and they achieve that w/o much exertion. maybe 3.2 or so. it's mostly a matter of the hull shape and length and the fact that you'll be wasting energy pushing to climb your own bow wave if you try going faster.

that extra pushing to climb up is fine for a powerboat until they pop up on plane but not something human power likes to do. you can push a yak faster, but i think really pumping might get you up to about 4mph more or less and i'm guessing most people don't do that for very long unless current/waves is assisting them.

in any case, i think about 3 about perfect.

i'm interested in knowing anyone's top speed on gps.

ps - i used to row a single and i got my hull up over 13mph. this was very long hull which results in a slightly higher hull speed. but more importantly, it's so slender that it pierces the bow wave, instead of climbing on top like a planing hull. its surface area/friction was reduced/optimized by its only being one foot wide and having a round bottom. but as a result, the hull had zero stability. you balance a shell using your oars.

in hull design it's all about design objectives and compromise. no single, perfect solution.

[chex]

On my revo 11, relaxed pedaling gets me about 3.5 mph, and sprint about 5mph.

[Southerly]

i can't say i scientifically tested it but i think my relaxed speed on outback is about 3.2. maybe slightly faster and i never tried speed test for fear of breaking the drive or something. if i check speed and i'm going a mph faster or slower, i charge that to the tide and keep doing what i'm doing, or push harder.

[ictalurus]

Before I had GPS, I used to compute my cruising speed my measuring points on Google Earth and timing how long it took me to cruise between them. Once you know that cadence (paddles/pedals per minute) you can reproduce it. You might be able to measure the distance between the pilings of the bridge on Google Earth if you can find an image with the proper angle. In my Outback with the standard fins, my cruising speed was around 3.5-3.8mph; however, those were distance/time based estimates. It's unlikely I was going in a straight line. Adding the ST (non Turbo) fins bumped it up to 4-4.5mph according to my GPS. In my Tarpon, I cruise between 3.8 and 4.2mph according to my GPS.

My cruising speed in my Revo with the Turbo fins is around 4.7 to 5mph if I'm just trying to cover ground, depending on the wind/tide. When I'm in shape and not wearing tons of winter clothes, I can sometimes maintain a bit over 5mph, but, as mentioned, there's diminishing returns for me over 5mph. My fastest sprint was over 6mph (6.5, I think), but my GPS sometimes gives goofy estimates. I certainly couldn't maintain that for more than a few minutes. I do most of my fishing after work, so I have a limited amount of time to get to my spots and fish. The less time I spend traveling, the more time I spend fishing. I'm also a slow runner, so I like to go fast on the water. Too bad 4mph is only a decent walking speed (15-minute mile).

Trolling in the Revo with the Turbos is tough because I have to slow down my natural cadence, so I have to watch the GPS closely. I was hoping the Revo combined with the Turbos would be fast enough to let me troll for Spanish mackerel, but that's not the case, sadly. However, the Turbos let me troll at around 3-4mph easily for extended periods of time without really feeling it the next day. If I spend a lot of time closer to 5mph, I definitely pay for it the next day.

[MDFishin]

Just bought a GPS APP for my phone so I guess I'll find out tomorrow. I'm going to try to determine my cadence a and remember it so I don't need electronics. All I need is a bite while trolling!!

[J.A. Veil]

Another trick for trolling is to let the lure out with a few feet of line. Paddle at a particular pace and watch how the lures moves. When you find a paddle/pedal speed that makes the lure run well, try to remember that, then let the line out.

Back to the topic of speed. My old OK Drifter is almost 1 mph slower than my Native Manta 14 using the same amount of paddle force.

[Yak Fish]

In the outback my gps reads 3-3.4 when trolling. On a sprint with turbo fins 6-7 mph. However, I will not sprint in my Hobie anymore. I stripped the plastic gear and had to replace it. In college I would leg press 1000lbs so a little plastic gear isn't too hard to break. I considered replacing the plastic gear with a metal one that was used on the older drives but was told it doesn't mesh as well with the chain.

[Shady]

I hit about 6mph on full throttle with my evolve

[CAGE RATTLER]

Just bought a GPS APP for my phone so I guess I'll find out tomorrow. I'm going to try to determine my cadence a and remember it so I don't need electronics. All I need is a bite while trolling!!

I was going to suggest getting an app. lots of free gps apps to show just speed.
If you have a smart phone check out the navionics app. Well worth the price.

[ictalurus]

I considered replacing the plastic gear with a metal one that was used on the older drives but was told it doesn't mesh as well with the chain.

Yeah, the metal gears aren't that great. The chain can jump off if the idler cable isn't properly adjusted. Plus, they're welded and can be broken as well. They're expensive to replace, too.

[chimo]

I just started using a gps on my Ascend FS-10. Easy paddling / cruising speed around 3mph depending on how bad the wind is blowing and 4-4.5 mph when I want to cover some ground. After that it is a severe case of diminishing returns. Fastest sprint so far has been about 5-5.5 mph and I can only maintain that for a few minutes. Need to get the gps on my OC Trident and see what I can do.

Chimo

[jet]

My gps typically says I'm trolling at average 2.5mph when going perpendicular or against current and 3.5 with current. Pedaling.

[Southerly]

some of people's results got me thinking and it finally occurred to me find the formula for hullspeed. for a displacement craft like kayak, it's based on the length.

http://www.sailingusa.info/cal__hull_speed.htm

it stands to reason that an overly blockey shape will be harder to push (form drag) than a nicely tapered one with round bottom, but apparently wave resistance (ie hull speed) is largest drag factor/component of total drag.

but back to the point as regards hull speed, theoretical hull speed for 12' displacement hull is 4.64 kt, or probably about 5mph. i guess this means i'm sort of a lazy ass going around at 3.2 and/or i might benefit from turbo fins if i want to go faster and/or get buns of steel.

as far as trolling goes - i think speed thru water is the relevant thing and there are guidelines, not laws. i think around 3 is early/late season coldwater speed for rock. around 4 (i think) in summer. bluefish can be faster troll, and spanish mackerel is around 6mph, or more if blues keep getting on.

but John's suggestion is spot on - check your lure make sure it is swimmin properly. my gut feeling is rock are quite active in 50*+ water if they want to be.

[ictalurus]

Thanks for the formula. I think this is where Hobies have an advantage over other similarly sized yaks. Since Hobies have a nearly vertical bow (deadrise?) they have a longer water line than other yaks. So my 12ft Outback probably had nearly a 12ft water line while the waterline for my Tarpon is slightly shorter since the bow and stern are angled.