Electric motors

[dsitka]

I like the mirage drive on my kayak. But after 4 miles, the 74-year-old legs start to tell me it's timeout. I would like to extend the range and I am very tempted to look at electric motors. Everything from trolling motors to the expensive but high tech Torqueedo models are a big step. Newport Vessels, Bixby and Evolve (Torqueedo) make motors. It can be a pile of money, and I wonder what other kayakers recommend. My use would be in the bay tributaries, and I am mostly interested in longer range not speed. Any brands that stand out?

[Jigsup]

I installed an Minn Kota Endura C2 trolling motor on the back of my 12ft paddle kayak. It was a quick, simple, diy fabrication project. My goal is to use this set up as long as I can.

I plan to eventually upgrade to a Hobie Outback equipped with a Minn Kota front mounted trolling motor with spot lock capability. Spot lock is a must for my style of fishing. Plus being able to set a bread crumb trail for trolling is an added benefit. I don’t believe the torqeedo model motors have spot lock features or bread crumb trail trolling features. I’d have to do more research. I do know the are transom mounted.

As far as range, it really depends on the battery. Lithium batteries are the go to for kayaks due to size and weight. Weight is a huge factor when it comes to a battery. But they come with a big price tag. The warranty eases the pain though. One brand I know warranty their batteries out to 11 years. If it’s in the budget a 100ah lithium would be ideal. I’ve read some say the get 6-8 hours on a charge while trolling.

[dsaavedra]

I don't know if other brands have this capability, but I know Torqueedo allows you to dial in your exact speed (to the tenth of mph, I believe) and it will show you your remaining range, in miles, based on your current speed. It updates the range in real time as you change your speed. That seems like an incredibly useful feature and one I would find very valuable for my style of fishing (lots of trolling and covering water).

I've thought about going electric, but a quick glance at the cost of a Torqueedo reminds me that for now, I still enjoy the physical activity of kayak fishing

[nhunter344]

One thing to consider is system weight. Torqeedo's biggest battery weighs around 12lbs and Bixpy's comes in around 7lbs. The 100ah trolling motor battery mentioned by Jigsup weighs around 30lbs.

Im not trying to promote one system over the other, just suggesting you ask yourself how much weight you want to lug around. A trolling motor setup will be around 50-60lbs total weight, the heaviest Torqeedo/Bixpy is around 30lbs total system weight.

One other consideration is system cost. Torqeedo will set you back $2-3k. Bixpy's come in around $1700. A trolling motor setup will run you around a grand for battery and motor, plus whatever else you need to buy to attach it to your kayak. Even cheaper if you skimp on a cheap battery (which I dont recommend). Im sure there are plenty of prefab trolling motor kayak mounting options available if you aren't a DIY'er.

I dont have any experience with Newport Vessel drives, but my gut is telling me its Chinese knock-off Torqeedo with a 30lb battery. Pure speculation on my part so take it with a grain of salt.

[dsitka]

I like the features of Torqueedo, the built in GPS and the data read out on the battery. It seems like a good selling point that they are German made and have a range of motors even up to powerboat size. True enough, high prices don't always mean quality. I am sold on lithium batteries, the weight is a concern. At my age, I have to consider spending money to get around, and it is not a matter of convenience. I always appreciate comments from other kayakers!

[J.A. Veil]

For most of the past week, I have been fishing in south Florida with two different guides who use Torqueedo motors on their kayaks. This allows them to tow 1 or 2 clients over extended distances to fish at more remote locations or to move more frequently in a 5-hour charter. Both of them love their Torqueedos. Having said that, it is important to understand that any electric motor is a complex mechanical device that will require some maintenance and will eventually experience mechanical or electrical issues. Under their heavy usage schedules (multiple trips every week year-round) and the need to accommodate both experienced and novice paddlers, dependability and durability are important. One of the guides is complaining of heightened engine noise, and the other had to send his Torqueedo back to the factory for repairs (he is using a loaner motor for the time being).

When I owned a power boat, I had a Minnkota electric trolling motor on the bow. I enjoyed the shallow water mobility it provided. After several years, I bumped the spinning prop into submerged rocks. This broke the propeller (easy to replace) but also bent the drive shaft. Because of the drive shaft, the motor was unrepairable. I spent a bundle to buy a new one.

I personally do not want to use an electric motor on my own kayaks. I prefer simple logistics and not having to depend on a motor that might break down or a battery that might not have enough charge to get me home. But many others want to extend their fishing ranges by using these motors. As you review the motor options, consider some or all of the following: purchase price, time for delivery (there had been some extreme motor backlogs a year or two ago), where to go for warranty or service matters, cost of parts/spare batteries, weight of batteries, track record for problems and lifetime duration, and ease of installation. Depending on how you store and transport your kayak, you may leave the motor in place (one of the two guides) or reinstall it each time before launching (the other guide).

[Oldbayrunner]

My 2 cents, due to bad knees and shoulders I have been powered now for over 9 years being among the first few. I also introduced the use of lithium batteries to this group with a lot of flack taken from other members at the time and that's all good because the end result is people started using them.. I've learned a lot in this time, weight is a consideration. If you can afford the Torqeedo it is a great system, the Bixpy is too I know a couple of my friends here that installed them on their Outback's rudder a few years ago. Now, getting down to trolling motors, there is a lot to consider and know before one goes there.

1. Mounting locations,
a. bow, center or rear, each has their purpose and some draw backs. Bow mounting is very maneuverable but if one gets into windy choppy conditions we can run into then the additional weight causes the bow to nose dive into chop which can be undesirable.
b. Center or console is conducive if one wants to maintain a rudder system. Draw backs are if one has a pedal system unless you have a peddle system that allows for swapping out heads for a motorized one then one has to pull out the pedal drive to use their motor. This also means storing one or the other out of the way when not in use taking up space. Then one has to consider water depth and submerged rocks, grass etc. with a prop below the hull, it has to be pulled to traverse through those areas.
c. Side mounting, I tried that for about 3 weeks of all of the mounting places I find this to be the least desirable for many reasons.
d. Transom, this has been my preference for many years, yes it adds weight to the back but it's never hurt anything in any conditions I've been faced with. With a stern mount one can tilt the motor out of the water, which is convenient not only for launching & Landing but also if one designs their tilt mechanism to lock in any position one can traverse motorized through just about any depth their kayak can float, including grass areas without fouling the prop and can be an aide to paddling if in currents.. Then one can add a rudder to the shaft so if drifting it can be used as any rudder would allow. Even if in an area one doesn't want to motor then it can be used for steering when paddling as it really doesn't add that much drag.

2. Motors, there is a lot to consider with these.
a. Today's Trolling motor choices are much better than a few years ago. For starters now we have the choice of brushed or brushless motors. Brushed motors are heavier, use more energy to power and have more parts that can wear out quicker. The Torqeedo, Bixpy & NV 180 are all brushless 24-25V systems, There are now several conventional 12V & 24V trolling motors available that are brushless. Brushless weigh less, A standard 30# brushed trolling motor weighs roughly 15-17lbs a 55# roughly 24+lbs, my 12V 65# brushless weighs 13.4lbs & my 80# brushless weighs 17lbs which is considerably lighter. The way brushless motors are built simply there are no brushes rubbing that cause friction and energy loss they also have the benefit of longer life due to less part wear due to no friction loss. Of the brushless motor types there are basically 2 types' sensored, meaning it has a built in hall effect esc and sensorless which still is controlled by a different type of esc. I won't go into detail regarding that but I do own one of each type.

3. Motor Thrust.
This can be, here on the bay, a major consideration dependent on where one plans on fishing. At all cost consider the worst conditions and plan accordingly. Early on I put a 45# brushed motor on, my very 1st trip down to the CBBT we went and fished Oyster Bay, To make a long story short the current carried me rapidly away from my friends and starting point, the motor wasn't able to pull the current and I wound up running full speed and paddling my butt off for a very long distance and time. This happened again when sudden unforcasted 30-40 mph winds came up on the bay as we were heading back a few miles to our launch point. Now I have enough to power just about anything.
Now to dispel a myth, Yes if one is running a more thrust motor verses a lessor thrust one both at full power the larger will use more amp draw but that's where it ends. Due to increased thrust a larger motor can and will use less to equal amp draw to go the same speed as the smaller motor powered vessel. Add a brushless motor to that equation and it will use less than a smaller brushed motor.

4. Batteries,
A. The use of sla, agm or gel batteries for use on a kayak are becoming a thing of the past. There are just too many good reasons to spend the extra money for lifepo4 lithium, weight, consistent voltage out put & thousands vs hundereds of charge cycles for battery life are the main ones. Of the motors out there for weight consideration the two main are 12V or 24V...... A 24V lithium battery will weigh & cost roughly twice as much as a 12V lithium battery Example; a 100ah lipo4 weighs approx 28lbs, a 50ah 24V 50ah battery weighs the same, double the cells equals double the weight. A 24V brushless motor will consume less amps then a 12V brushless motor so there is a trade off.
B. Size needed, that's a tough one because someone who only paddle or powers vs someone who paddles, peddles & powers needs can be vastly different. Usually given one spends more time peddling wont really need a large battery, however if one powers more they will, it all boils down to amp use. Amp usage for time on the water is the major consideration and there is a formula to roughly calculate need. Battery ah size

[dsitka]

Thanks for the follow up. I was away for a good while and just caught up with your reply today. I did go with the Torqeedo 1103 and lithium battery. I installed it on the stern with steering cables by Tim Percy. I follow a you tube channel by Jeff Little called "Little Stuff". He's connected with Torqeedo and presents a lot of good information on rigging. My knees and back are shot and though I was out several times last year in my Hobie PA 14, Power is my hope to keep on the water. I could have done a lot more in my shop, but circumstances pushed me into spending the money on rigging. I found the Innovative Sportsman sold some nice products to help rig up the 1103. Of course, there is no limit to how much you can spend on rigging a kayak. I tried to keep it minimal. We will see once I get the Kayak out. Thanks again for the feedback. I think this is useful for a lot of people who still like kayak fishing but want to extend their sport despite physical challenges.

[Slough Sleigher]

My 2 cents, due to bad knees and shoulders I have been powered now for over 9 years being among the first few. I also introduced the use of lithium batteries to this group with a lot of flack taken from other members at the time and that's all good because the end result is people started using them.. I've learned a lot in this time, weight is a consideration. If you can afford the Torqeedo it is a great system, the Bixpy is too I know a couple of my friends here that installed them on their Outback's rudder a few years ago. Now, getting down to trolling motors, there is a lot to consider and know before one goes there.

1. Mounting locations,
a. bow, center or rear, each has their purpose and some draw backs. Bow mounting is very maneuverable but if one gets into windy choppy conditions we can run into then the additional weight causes the bow to nose dive into chop which can be undesirable.
b. Center or console is conducive if one wants to maintain a rudder system. Draw backs are if one has a pedal system unless you have a peddle system that allows for swapping out heads for a motorized one then one has to pull out the pedal drive to use their motor. This also means storing one or the other out of the way when not in use taking up space. Then one has to consider water depth and submerged rocks, grass etc. with a prop below the hull, it has to be pulled to traverse through those areas.
c. Side mounting, I tried that for about 3 weeks of all of the mounting places I find this to be the least desirable for many reasons.
d. Transom, this has been my preference for many years, yes it adds weight to the back but it's never hurt anything in any conditions I've been faced with. With a stern mount one can tilt the motor out of the water, which is convenient not only for launching & Landing but also if one designs their tilt mechanism to lock in any position one can traverse motorized through just about any depth their kayak can float, including grass areas without fouling the prop and can be an aide to paddling if in currents.. Then one can add a rudder to the shaft so if drifting it can be used as any rudder would allow. Even if in an area one doesn't want to motor then it can be used for steering when paddling as it really doesn't add that much drag.

2. Motors, there is a lot to consider with these.
a. Today's Trolling motor choices are much better than a few years ago. For starters now we have the choice of brushed or brushless motors. Brushed motors are heavier, use more energy to power and have more parts that can wear out quicker. The Torqeedo, Bixpy & NV 180 are all brushless 24-25V systems, There are now several conventional 12V & 24V trolling motors available that are brushless. Brushless weigh less, A standard 30# brushed trolling motor weighs roughly 15-17lbs a 55# roughly 24+lbs, my 12V 65# brushless weighs 13.4lbs & my 80# brushless weighs 17lbs which is considerably lighter. The way brushless motors are built simply there are no brushes rubbing that cause friction and energy loss they also have the benefit of longer life due to less part wear due to no friction loss. Of the brushless motor types there are basically 2 types' sensored, meaning it has a built in hall effect esc and sensorless which still is controlled by a different type of esc. I won't go into detail regarding that but I do own one of each type.

3. Motor Thrust.
This can be, here on the bay, a major consideration dependent on where one plans on fishing. At all cost consider the worst conditions and plan accordingly. Early on I put a 45# brushed motor on, my very 1st trip down to the CBBT we went and fished Oyster Bay, To make a long story short the current carried me rapidly away from my friends and starting point, the motor wasn't able to pull the current and I wound up running full speed and paddling my butt off for a very long distance and time. This happened again when sudden unforcasted 30-40 mph winds came up on the bay as we were heading back a few miles to our launch point. Now I have enough to power just about anything.
Now to dispel a myth, Yes if one is running a more thrust motor verses a lessor thrust one both at full power the larger will use more amp draw but that's where it ends. Due to increased thrust a larger motor can and will use less to equal amp draw to go the same speed as the smaller motor powered vessel. Add a brushless motor to that equation and it will use less than a smaller brushed motor.

4. Batteries,
A. The use of sla, agm or gel batteries for use on a kayak are becoming a thing of the past. There are just too many good reasons to spend the extra money for lifepo4 lithium, weight, consistent voltage out put & thousands vs hundereds of charge cycles for battery life are the main ones. Of the motors out there for weight consideration the two main are 12V or 24V...... A 24V lithium battery will weigh & cost roughly twice as much as a 12V lithium battery Example; a 100ah lipo4 weighs approx 28lbs, a 50ah 24V 50ah battery weighs the same, double the cells equals double the weight. A 24V brushless motor will consume less amps then a 12V brushless motor so there is a trade off.
B. Size needed, that's a tough one because someone who only paddle or powers vs someone who paddles, peddles & powers needs can be vastly different. Usually given one spends more time peddling wont really need a large battery, however if one powers more they will, it all boils down to amp use. Amp usage for time on the water is the major consideration and there is a formula to roughly calculate need. Battery ah size

Oldbayrunner, Your posting was THE most informative, well-crafted thought-provoking piece I've read on the subject of kayak electric propulsion to date. With a posting that informative, I'd like a dollar's worth of your two cents knowledge! Even though I personally grapple with the question of' "at what time in the outfitting of a kayak does it no longer remain a kayak?", I suggest the Administrator(s) permanently pin your post to this board. Thank you for your two cents!

[Memory Maker]

Just go with Torqeedo …….. more expensive but totally worth it. I have a bunch.

[Oldbayrunner]

Oldbayrunner, Your posting was THE most informative, well-crafted thought-provoking piece I've read on the subject of kayak electric propulsion to date. With a posting that informative, I'd like a dollar's worth of your two cents knowledge! Even though I personally grapple with the question of' "at what time in the outfitting of a kayak does it no longer remain a kayak?", I suggest the Administrator(s) permanently pin your post to this board. Thank you for your two cents!

Thank you.
I think it's not important at what point does a kayak cease being considered a kayak because the importance in reality is the outfitted kayak's ability to be used as a fishing vessel. After all, that is our main goal for it's use and each of us outfit to suit our personal needs. In the end strip everything off to bare bones, it's still a kayak.

[Memory Maker]

C22461AA-044D-4B0F-B678-A9928A4E0A43.jpg

Oldbayrunner, Your posting was THE most informative, well-crafted thought-provoking piece I've read on the subject of kayak electric propulsion to date. With a posting that informative, I'd like a dollar's worth of your two cents knowledge! Even though I personally grapple with the question of' "at what time in the outfitting of a kayak does it no longer remain a kayak?", I suggest the Administrator(s) permanently pin your post to this board. Thank you for your two cents!

None of us are using kayaks unless they are made of seal hide and whalebone. We are all in plastic things we call kayaks. Outfitting is personal preference. Some are traditionalists and others (like me ) love their accessories. I just bought an Osprey 1436 2 weeks ago. It is an inflatable that is built by rough handling fishermen for fisherman. Mine has 23’ of 4 sided top loading gear track that gives me the ultimate in outfitting. I can mount/dismount accessories in seconds anywhere on the 23’ of track. The 4 sides lets me mount on the inside, outside and the top and run wires underneath. I can completely change the configuration to suit my purposes in a couple of minutes or less.

[moc]

I like the Bixby motor due to its simplicity and lightweight. I don't use it for my main thrust sit down and "assist" to my pedaling on my Mirage Drive. Since I use it as an assist it lasts my whole time out on the water. No wiring needed the motor. It uses a remote control and the original battery is what I have floats. It also has a kill switch so if you attach it to your like this it'll kill the motor if you fall out of the boat. If you turtle or fall out of your boat your battery won't go to the Bottom of the Sea. The Bixby is light. So far it has served me well. Finally I know people who can have the more expensive Motors and when they break they cost $500 to $800 to repair every time. For that price I can buy another Bixby. Keep in mind that the more expensive mode and larger motors have more thrust than the Bixby that's why I use it as a peddle assist.

[YakMonkey]

Texas power paddle or bixpy

[mdfisherman57]

I just purchased the Newport nk300 with 36v 30ah battery. Just took it out last weekend and preformed just as well as the torqeedo 1103 ac. Had a buddy out there with his 1103 and they were an exact match as far as speed goes. Only think torqeedo has the Newport doesn’t is on the controller it tells you a percentage left of battery were Newport shows a battery indicator bar and watts drawn. I was trolling at a speed of 2 and 3 mph and was only using 6-10% throttle which is extremely effective for longevity. I chose Newport because you have the ability to purchase other batteries and are not stuck with a proprietary battery system like the torqeedo but both are great motors.