Mini Umbrella Rigs?

[Yak Fish]

Hey guys,
I want to get ready for the big stripers in the early spring. I'll be giving the susquehanna flats another shot this year...skunked last year. It seems that most boats troll with umbrella rigs. Is this possible on a kayak or is it too much drag...I'd try and go with the smaller 15" size?

I also found these mini umbrella rigs that seem interesting. Even if not for the large stripers, just for the small schoolies in the summer and fall.
www.trollbaby.com

I think they'd need to be modified because I don't think they are legal as sold since there are more than 2 hooks on the rig.

Has anyone used these or even a standard umbrella rig while trolling on a Hobie?

[ictalurus]

I tried it once with a 12" umbrella, 6" shads, and a 3oz (I think) bucktail, and I didn't last very long. I can't remember if I had the ST fins at the time, though. I know my winter gear was inhibiting my pedaling a bit. However, the experience was enough that I'm not inclined to try again. It might be possible with the Turbo fins and by paying careful attention to the currents and wind. I've also seen umbrellas with mylar fish on the arms rather than rubber shads, which might be less resistance. I'm not sure if it's the arms or the shads that contribute most to the drag.

I haven't met many people that have done it successfully. Friday on the tidalfish kayak forum pulls a couple different types of umbrellas, but he does it under sail. Surfdog had a small umbrella he was going to try, but I don't know he tried it yet.

Parachutes, tandem rigs, daisy chains, and Stretch 25s might be better bets. A Stretch 25 can be tough to pull for long periods, too.

If you give it a shot, let us know how it goes.

[mdmakaira410]

Ive though about this dillema as well and the first thing that came to mind was using a stripteaser. They look incredible under the water and definitly raise fish. I was thinking of getting their smallest one and replacing the center arm strip with a rigged bucktail. These cant create anywhere near the drag of a normal umbrella rig. I dont know if the fish pattern or color would work for rockfish but its worth a shot.

[Redfish12]

Anyone ever try a daisy chain? My plan for the flats is to try to make some large profile clousers to troll with in a daisy or 3 way configuration. The water is shallow enough that it should work and flies have a lot of action in the kayak due to the speed fluctuations.

[DOGFISH]

Trolling Speed

I agree with Bill and the others, there is going to be alot of drag. I know when I am pulling the large Rapalas, the 15, 20 and 30 saltwater series, similar to a Stretch, I drop speed on the GPS. I use an electric motor, and drop from 4 mph to about 3 mph, when trolling large deep diving Rapalas. So it seems that it will be alot of effort to paddle or peddle with umbrella rigs. Given waves and wind, that may be alot to overcome.

The Clouser idea, by Redfish, may be a good. A series of streamers would not have as much drag. However, I have never been a real fan of umbrella rigs. Even when I had my boat, I didn't like the drag on the rod. When you do hook a fish, you have to drag all of that weight up along with the fish. It just never seemed like fishing to me. Why not just tie dummylines to the stern of the boat with 300lb test. Dummylines have always been productive. I know, I know, call me some type of purist, but I like to play a fish, even when trolling. I really never liked trolling when I had my boat. I think that is why I like to troll from a kayak. When a fish is hooked, there is still plenty of play to be had. That is probably why I like to troll crankbaits so much, there is nothing between the rod and the fish, no rigging and no weights.

There are other ways of attracting fish. The Stretch or other raddle baits create alot of noise in the water, which grabs a fishes attention. A fish can follow those noise vibrations along way. Flash is also a fish producer. Someone mentioned mylar chains. That may be great in creating flash. The clouser idea, WorldClass36 uses Clousers in conjunction with a plug. That also could be a good idea for a daisychain. In one of the other threads there was discussion about a six pack schoolie, even though that may also create alot of drag.

If you peddle or paddle, one needs to remember that trolling sets up a situation of a reaction bite. So you need to maintain good speed. It is most accepted in the bay, for rockfish, that about 3 mph is a good speed for trolling. That is going to be tough, when pulling one or even two umbrella rigs. If you give the fish too long to look at the lure, or an umbrella rig, it is going to know it is an artificial. How may times have you caught a fish in the side or around the gill area, when it tried to turn away at the last second? Even when trolling with good speed, some will see an artificial for what it is. If you slow down too much, by pulling too much lure or weight, you may hurt your sucess. There are other methods to consider. Just my opinions here. Not everyone has to fish my way. Just some considerations for thought.

There were some good discussions and ideas in this thread. That is why I like this forum so much.

Good Luck.

[Yak Fish]

Great responses guys. I've learned some things here. I definitely agree with Dogfish about the amount of drag and hauling the whole rig back in. I don't like that aspect of it. In fact, I just experienced this walleye fishing at the base of the conowingo dam. I bought a 9' surf rod using heavy weights to cast out near the dam...well, jeeze, when you actually hook a fish you don't get a lot of play because of the heavy tackle needed to fish the area. I had way more fun fishing a pond this weekend going for bass on light tackle. I want to feel the fish and know it's a fish rather than a branch that I've snagged. I'll already be trolling a tandem rig and crank baits, but I wanted to add that last bit of muscle and throw everything at trying to get one of the big ones. Maybe I'll try one of the smaller rigs with either streamers or small spoons with a reasonable sized parachute or bucktail chaser.

Are the Hobie owners out there using the turbo fins while trolling? I've only the standard issue so far.

thanks for the responses guys. It's better to go on others' experience than spend a bunch of money on a mistake.

[ictalurus]

I use the ST fins, which are between the standard fins and the turbos. There were some problems caused by the turbos when they first came out, and I didn't want to press my luck given my history with defective hulls. Plus, they required longer masts and were more expensive. The STs fit on the standard masts but are adjustable like the turbos. I recommend them if you don't want to step up to the turbo workout.

[Memory Maker]

Great responses guys. I've learned some things here. I definitely agree with Dogfish about the amount of drag and hauling the whole rig back in. I don't like that aspect of it. In fact, I just experienced this walleye fishing at the base of the conowingo dam. I bought a 9' surf rod using heavy weights to cast out near the dam...well, jeeze, when you actually hook a fish you don't get a lot of play because of the heavy tackle needed to fish the area. I had way more fun fishing a pond this weekend going for bass on light tackle. I want to feel the fish and know it's a fish rather than a branch that I've snagged. I'll already be trolling a tandem rig and crank baits, but I wanted to add that last bit of muscle and throw everything at trying to get one of the big ones. Maybe I'll try one of the smaller rigs with either streamers or small spoons with a reasonable sized parachute or bucktail chaser.

Are the Hobie owners out there using the turbo fins while trolling? I've only the standard issue so far.

thanks for the responses guys. It's better to go on others' experience than spend a bunch of money on a mistake.

I've got Turbo's on my PA ( I think) ........... trolled the 1st time w/Redfish12 and there were some others in the area. On that day I got 2 and the others were skunked .......... trolled between 3 and 4 mph with spurts to keep the bucktail from dragging bottom ........ probably beginners luck

[Redfish12]

My plan as of now for the flats is to troll 1 of three things:

1) tube n worm
2) large (6-9") flies in herring patterns
3) large shallow diving plugs

If that doesn't work I will probably bring some herring to chunk in some of the small channels there and hope I get lucky!

[Redfish12]

Here's some flies I've tied so far (please ignore the mess...). The pink with the orange head produced as a teaser this fall, going to try and make it bigger for the spring.

I was also thinking of making some and clipping the bend of the hook off and then tying them in a line. Would be kind of cool to have a small chain of them.

[ictalurus]

Hey Redfish,

Rather than tying them on hooks and clipping them at the bend, do you think you could tie them as tube flies?

[Redfish12]

Hey Redfish,

Rather than tying them on hooks and clipping them at the bend, do you think you could tie them as tube flies?

I've been thinking about trying that as well since it would be easier to make a chain with swivels and the files on leaders. It might also improve the action. I've never tied tube flies so I figured I'd stick with what I know and just clip them and dangle them off short lengths of mono on a 3 way swivel daisy chain... we shall see. I wonder which flies should have hooks? First and last? Last two? Seems like an easy way to troll some bigger profile baits in shallow water with little drag so I'm going to test it as much as possible.

[jffoley]

I made a daisy chain out of a standard, wire hi-lo rig from Dick's. A 5" swim shad on each arm (no hooks, cut a bait holder hook a little above the bend with wire cutters and inserted the shank into the swim shad and connected it with a snap swivel) Attached an 18" leader on the end and add a lure (with hooks) of your choice.

I only got a chance to use it once and no results but I didn't catch any with anything in my arsenal that day. But it swam real well, looked great and I think it will work.

[DOGFISH]

If you're going to do something like that, just tie in some dropper loops along the leader and attach the flies in that fashion, with the hook version on the end. That way you can easily swap out any flies for any reason simply by passing them through the loop. I sometimes do that with bucktails, only two of course. It is an easy way to make a tandem rig, when on the run.

[Redfish12]

If you're going to do something like that, just tie in some dropper loops along the leader and attach the flies in that fashion, with the hook version on the end. That way you can easily swap out any flies for any reason simply by passing them through the loop. I sometimes do that with bucktails, only two of course. It is an easy way to make a tandem rig, when on the run.

Dropper loops reduce the strength of the line, I can't remember offhand by how much, but I believe they are like 50% or something. I'd much prefer to go palomar knot to swivel and so on so I can try to keep the leader lighter. I use dropper loops but I feel like fish in the flats are going to be finicky and I'll actually need to use fluorocarbon for once. If tubes are used then it should hide the swivels... hmm this is going to be a long winter.