Nc slaughter

every one needs to check this out if you can get on P&S go to the NC forum and check out what the A** holes are doing down there to the rock population, its the most disgusting and disgraceful thing i've seen and it must be stopped somehow. if anyone can link the thread that would be great. but we must as anglers try to stop this wholesale slaughter in our waters.

[ictalurus]

There's been a few threads on tidalfish, thehulltruth, etc about this. I think NCDMF got a barrage of calls and emails as a result. The rules have been changed to 2000lbs of stripers per day. However, there's an additional rule that's kind of weird. If a boat catches more than 2000lbs, they can transfer the extra to another boat while still out in the ocean. That's good for reducing waste, but it seems like it would be hard to enforce. I guess the marine police would have to check boats when they offload their fish to make sure they don't have more than 2000lbs.

One problem with trawling is you never know what you're going to catch or how much. The fish are generally dead by the time the net is emptied, so the discards are waste. The only way around that is shorter tows. I wonder if they're allowed to keep trawling for other species after they get their 2000lb limit?

Regarding the discards, there are a few fisheries scientists in the Gulf of Mexico and I think in the northeast that suspect that predatory species (in the Gulf of Mexico) and lobsters (in the northeast) may have benefited from the discards. That's not saying the discards are good, but it shows how difficult it is to track down the changes in the ecosystem caused by fishing.

[surfdog]

maybe thats why the spinney and smooth dogfish population has exploded in the last few years too bad they dont catch them by the net full.

also in that press release they bring the recreational fisherman into the equation by stating that they we have dumped 1 million rock, what a load of crap. IDK where they got that info. but it must have come in a large envelope

trawlers are even worse than long liners, they sweep the ocean not caring what goes in the net and everything dies

[ictalurus]

Good point, I forgot about dogfish. I know some guys looking into that, too, but there are a couple competing views.

Trawling is a problem because it's pretty indiscriminate, and it damages the bottom. The differences between areas that have been trawled and those that haven't are pretty incredible. For the scallop fishery, there was a period where they had rotating area closures, kind of like rotating crops. That seemed to work pretty well. I'm not sure if that is being considered for trawling. Additionally, I suspect stripers caught by commercial hook and liners are of higher quality, too, because they're not all beat up.

Not to be an argumentative PITA, but the million fish discarded by recreational anglers (in 2008) could be argued to be low. From what I can gather from the last striped bass stock assessment, they got that number by multiplying the number of fish released (they never stated that number) by the estimated hooking mortality (8% based on various studies, including some done in Maryland). One million is 8% of 13 million. Think of it this way: Let's say 100 thousand people total up and down the coast fished for stripers for 10 days total in 2008. Camden Yards in Baltimore holds ~50 thousand people, so fill the stadium up twice and give everyone a rod. During those 10 days everyone caught 15 fish. Everyone kept only 2 fish during the entire 10 days (recreational landings were around 2 million) and released 13. Of the 13 fish everyone released, 1 died from being caught. When you think about everyone fishing all up and down the coast, I bet it's a lot more than 100 thousand fishing only 10 days a year. There's some evidence that the 8% hooking mortality rate might be too high because of increased use of circle hooks and conscientious anglers, but we've had some hot summers, and I can see the mortality rate being higher than 8% during those periods because the fish are already stressed because of the temperature.

With all that said, it could be argued that the commercial discard rate is too low, and I don't know enough about how those numbers are estimated to give a good argument either way about that. I think the commercial landings numbers are probably reasonable; however, I doubt they include poaching. I'm not sure what could be done about that.

Sorry for the dissertation. I've been looking at various stock assessments lately, so I've been thinking about this for a while.

[DOGFISH]

Regardless of all the commercial arguments, where certain fish are given gamefish status, their numbers soar. Until stripers are given gamefish status, the waste will continue. In spite of all the bicatch and mortality numbers, I wonder how many fish go to waste as not being sold at the seafood store. I know that I will not buy stripers at any market or restaurant. One step as consumers and as sport fishers, one should not buy wildcaught stripers at the market or while out to dinner. However, as sportfishers we need to get politically motivated to protect the fisheries. The sad thing is that most organizations that are involved, only seem to interested in getting a fair share of the catch for sportfisherman. Its not about a fair share, that still allows the waste. Whenever, we get lumped in with commercial interest, we lose. It is about gamefish status. Look at the success of redfish and of snook in the south.

Not only are the stripers taken in that concern, but their food source, the menhaden, is being destroyed by commercial interest. There is no question that our fisheries are being decimated. Its all about greed. There is no seaweed, which served as a nursery, as protection as well as a filter. The runoff and polution are out of control, with the increased population near the coast. There are decreased food sources for the game fish. There are no longer many oysters to filter the water. The fish and shellfish are diseased. I have seen this in my lifetime, which is not a very long span of time overall. If something is not done, there is not going to be much left. One seems to forget what the Chesapeake Bay once was. We cannot forget these lessons. These arguments about how to divide up the catch of an ever diminishing resource are merely statistics, and not real conservation. Look at what happened in the mid-eighties, during the striper moritorium. The numbers dramatically came back. Now we forget the lessons learned and the slaughter continues. There was supposed to be conservation before then also. This is simple and in lay terms.

Its all about greed. There should be gamefish status. There should be no nets in the bay. If trawling is to be allowed, it should be kept well off shore, and I mean well off shore. If there is to be a commercial fishery, then it should be hook and line, and I do not mean long lines.

The majority of my life is behind me. If anything can be learned by this ranting, is that if the same amount of destruction occurrs in the next fifty or so years, you all will be fishing for nothing but carp. That is, if the commercial fishing industry has not found a commercial use for carp.

Good Luck.

[DOGFISH]

PS: "...I forgot about dogfish...."

Don't forget about dogfish!

[surfdog]

Dogfish i agree with you, netting should be banned. how many fish sticks does mcds need to make?

Bill i think the estimate is a little high more like 2-3% mortality jmho. out of the 10 or so rock i caught last year 3 were foul hooked and i dont think they made it and i only use circle hooks.

i thought W Bush gave stripers and red drum game fish status thats why they are protected in federal waters 3 miles offshore, individual states control the first 3 miles and they are as crooked as a mangrove root

[ictalurus]

Sam--yeah, 2-4% is probably more like it. I think people spend more time handling fish properly now than they used to. I've been thinking about marking fish in places I fish regularly to see if I catch the same individuals again. I be curious about the Bay Bridge, too.

Don--shifting baselines are important, and it's easy to forget how things used to be. That's why it's good to have the old-timers around. On the upside, there have been some surprising big strides in sea grass recovery lately, particularly in the upper Bay, the Potomac, and some places in VA, so the droughts haven't been all bad. Nothing's happened around Solomons, though. It's really sad to look at the old aerial photos from the 1960s. The sea grass meadows completely surrounded the island back then.

[surfdog]

I've caught rock with hook wounds in their mouths they arnt the smartest animal they just want to eat

[DOGFISH]

I know of the hydrilla on the Potomac. I sincerely hope that the grasses will come back someday. They were wonderful. The entire bay and all the rivers and creeks were ringed with seaweed, in some places many yards out. One could catch enough grass shrimp for a day of fishing with 3 to 5 nets along the edge of the grass, in some places. The grasses were rich with food for the larger fish.

It is good to hear discussions like this. When I hear talk of invasive species, I sometimes think that people forget that we are the worst of the invasive species.

[DOGFISH]

Bill, that is a good idea. Maybe as a group, we should look at getting into tagging fish. There must be some way of getting some tags. I would be interested in seeing if I was catching some of the same fish. That could be fun and helpful at the same time.

[jffoley]

I've seen a number of articles and threads on the various forums about this. That NC regulation has to be the most wasteful I've ever heard of! Incredible!

Don, you mention tagging. A number of guys I used to run with in NY/NJ would do that. Seems like the program is still very much active:

http://www.littoralsociety.org/fish_tagging.aspx

[DOGFISH]

Thanks John, I am going to do the tagging thing.

[DOGFISH]

This is one of the reports from Tidal Fish: http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/show...s-for-trawlers.

As recreational fisherman we should all be insulted by the discard numbers for recreational fisherman. I would like to know how they come upon their numbers. That has got to be bogus.

[DOGFISH]

If you want to really be set off, check out the video of the fish dump: http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/show...t-bycatch-quot.