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Two Days Trolling with Two Different Kayaks - Both Days were Good

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  • Two Days Trolling with Two Different Kayaks - Both Days were Good

    Hi everyone,

    I met with a couple guys from the forum on Saturday. We fished the Eastern Bay. I was trolling two rods with paddletails from my sit-in kayak. I suspect that my definition of a successful day is a little different than some other people who have more experience. I landed six rockfish over a period of a few hours and that was a great day for me. Getting the hang of trolling from a paddle kayak is a work in progress. When one of my rods went down for the first time, I caught my first fish of the day and my first ever fish trolling from a kayak. The downside is that when I stopped paddling to reel in the fish, the paddletail on my second rod sank to the bottom and got snagged. I lost that jig head and paddletail, but was happy to have caught the fish.

    For me, fishing from a sit-in kayak is challenging. I find that it is easier for me to paddle to a shoreline and get out of the kayak when changing lures or tending to my rods and reels. It also feels nice to stretch my legs as they cramp up in the cockpit of the sit-in kayak. Standing alone on a small section of beach on a tiny island in the bay is incredibly peaceful for me. I enjoy these moments and tend to pull ashore frequently throughout the day as I have to "use the bathroom" more and more frequently due to a medical condition.

    I realized that one of the people that I was fishing with was a little concerned if they didn't see me on the water or if they saw that I had pulled ashore. I need to be more cognizant of the concerns of the people I am fishing with as I do not want them to have to worry about my safety. Most of my regular fishing partners are used to these respites. There is a beach with a rip rap near Jonas Green that I will sometimes pull ashore and cast and retrieve for 30 minutes or longer. It is a great rest for my legs and I even meditate there sometimes.

    I am planning to purchase a VHF radio in order to effectively communicate with fellow fisherman in the future. I think that this would have helped to alleviate their concern on Saturday.

    Yesterday was my first day on my brand new Falcon 11. WOOHOOOO!!!!! My legs did not cramp up much at all and I was able to easily access my tackle box, tie on lures, and do most general maintenance while out on the water. As a result, I did not need to pull over to the shore nearly as often yesterday as I did on Saturday. I honestly lost track of how many fish I caught yesterday. I suspect that the number is somewhere in the mid-teens. All of the fish that I caught were rockfish, with one exception. I caught a large, fat white perch that was a very pleasant surprise. I love perch fishing and am looking forward to that later this summer.

    Upcoming projects for the Falcon (I welcome any advice):

    1. I cannot cartop this kayak alone. I am 5'5" and not very strong. Getting the kayak on top of the car, and also in an upright position (up on its side) up over the lip of a j-bar is more than i can handle alone. I use a twin j bar system so that I can transport two kayaks. I realize that if a transported the kayak with the hull face down, it would be easier to load onto the car, but I still cannot do it by myself with some type of load assist device.

    2. When trolling, it is hard to see your rods in the rear rod holders that are standard in the Falcon 11. I would like to install two adjustable rod holders in the front of the kayak. I am not as handy as some of the guys on this board.

    Are there any shops around that do custom modifications such as installing rod holders or load assist devices?

    Something weird was happening with my line this weekend. My line was getting twisted and stuck around the eyes of the rod and forming small birds nests more than I can ever remember. Someone told me that this may be due to the fact that I was trolling paddletails and the line was twisting over and over again in the water. It was a little frustrating, although every obstacle is a little less formidable when I am catching fish :--). Almost every time I retrieved my lure and went to cast it out again, there was a problem with the line that needed to be addressed. As soon as I "untwisted" the line, it would go right back to where it was and I would have to untwist it again. It seemed as if I could literally see the "memory" in the line forcing the line back into its previous provision. If anyone has any ideas how to deal with this or prevent it, I would be grateful.

    Amazing weekend and I am sorry for the long post.

    Thank you to everyone for all of your help. Also, a special thanks to John Veil as his book is an incredible resource that no doubt was instrumental in my success this weekend.

  • #2
    Congrats on two successful days fishing. Your line issue sounds like what's commonly referred to as "wind knots", typically caused by twisted line. Were you using braided line? I think wind knots are more common with braided line (especially lower pound test braid) because of how thin and supple it is. I don't usually get line twist from paddle tails though... did you have them rigged perfectly straight on your jigs? If they're sitting a little crooked on the jig that might cause the lure to spin. Of if you picked up some debris on your lures while trolling, that might also cause the lure to spin. But a properly rigged paddle tail shouldn't spin at all.
    Dave

    2021 Hobie Outback Camo
    2013 Native Slayer Hidden Oak

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    • #3
      Dave. I was using mono Berkley Trilene XL Solar. That line is easy for me to see and it does not appear to spook fish. I have not made the jump to braid yet. I tried once and it was not pleasant and I cut my hand up also (which now I understand is why I need a leader of mono or flouro). As far as the paddletails go, I rigged them as straight as I could, but this is my first time using them. Also, the Z man version were sliding down the jig head after a fish bite so I used gorilla glue to adhere them to the top of the jig head. After some use and a fish or two, the paddletail would get "bunched up" or twisted and it was hard to adjust them since I had used gorilla glue on them :--(

      Comment


      • #4
        Mono has lots of memory and if spooled backwards on the reel will definitely try to wrap on you rod. I use mostly braid, but even that after a large number of trips will want to grab the rod tip on occasion. When it starts to happen frequently I cut off around 10 yards to get to fresher braid and retie the leader ( oh don’t get us started on leader knots).

        Unless blues are around I rarely use Z-man lures for the reasons you described. I also like the action of softer plastic better. I do use Z-Man Trout Tricks if targeting specs, the smaller size and long thin tail is very effective on them.
        Mike
        Pro Angler 14 "The Grand Wazoo"

        Comment


        • #5
          Do lots of testing before you mount forward rod holders on your yak. Many dont and the first time theyre on the water, they realize they mounted the rods holders in an area that interferes with their paddling.
          "Fish on a Dish" - 2017 Jackson Big Tuna
          Jackson Cuda 12

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't understand Big Mike's comment about line being spooled backward. I don't know for sure if I am spooling my line correctly or not. How can you tell if it is spooled properly?

            It definitely occured to me yesterday that I would have to be careful about the placement of the forward rod holders. I am a small guy with short arms. Putting front rod holders in a place that I can easily reach them without interfering with my paddling will be incredibly important

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by UnkleRob2020 View Post
              It definitely occured to me yesterday that I would have to be careful about the placement of the forward rod holders. I am a small guy with short arms. Putting front rod holders in a place that I can easily reach them without interfering with my paddling will be incredibly important
              One thing you might consider is installing more gear track (same stuff that's on the gunwales where your carry handles are) on the forward gunwales of your kayak, then you can mount your rod holders to the gear track and slide them fore or aft as you need. The longer the gear track you install, the further you can slide your rod holders around. This will provide a much more flexible solution than installing rod holders that bolt through the hull. I think John Veil just posted a thread in the Dry Dock forum showing this exact procedure.
              Dave

              2021 Hobie Outback Camo
              2013 Native Slayer Hidden Oak

              Comment


              • #8
                Rob,
                Nice to meet you recently. Am pretty sure you will enjoy your new kayak. Hope to see you on the water again!
                John Rentch
                Annapolis

                Native Ultimate 12 FX Pro
                Hobie Revolution 11

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by UnkleRob2020 View Post
                  I don't understand Big Mike's comment about line being spooled backward. I don't know for sure if I am spooling my line correctly or not. How can you tell if it is spooled properly?
                  t
                  Mono develops memory from the way it’s spooled on the holder. When you spool it on your reel you want it ideally to be laying in the same direction it is in the box. Say when looking down at the line spool with the label up the line goes off to the right coming off. So pick it up and hold in front of your reel. You want the line to go on your reel so that it comes off the same way. It’s not the end of the world if it goes on backwards, it will eventually relearn it’s new position. If you get a lot of loops on the reel itself when you’re retrieving that’s usually an indication the line wants to lay in the opposite direction.

                  A few fish and a couple weeks on the reel will minimize the affect.
                  Mike
                  Pro Angler 14 "The Grand Wazoo"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Howdy Rob,

                    As you found out, mono is much affected by twist than braid is. Even a swivel can only do so much. Heavier test strength of mono, above 15-20 lb. is more prone to having memory, and I found that fluorocarbon was stiffer than mono was. The heaviest mono line I routinely use is 12 pound test, the braid I use is listed as 10 lb. test, but actually breaks at 17-18 pounds.

                    Braid will twist too, but it is a lot more forgiving, and as you found out, there is a learning curve for using braid.

                    I hated it the first time I used it, and broke a couple of rods, but I eventually converted to it full time.
                    Gotta be careful about running it around your hands and fingers, and don't try to break it by pulling up on the rod........

                    When I helped out on the charter boat, we only used braid when trolling with large lures with heavy trolling reels, when we switched to chumming with lighter spinning rods, we stayed with mono, as it is much easier to untangle when the customers crossed lines, and it was a lot more cost effective to replace then braid was.

                    Twist can be cause by a couple of things, lures spinning while being trolled it the most common. The solution, as you figured out is to make sure that the lure is as straight as possible. You may possibly need to try heavier head.

                    Reeling a spinning rod against the drag will also cause twist.

                    What Big Mike is alluding to is the direction the line comes off of the storage spool onto the reel. Rather than try to describe this in writing, look on YouTube to find a video on "How to fill the spool on a spinning reel."
                    Hopefully it will provide more clarity than I can in writing. It has to do with the direction that the line comes off of the plastic spool and then is wound onto the reel.

                    Finally, if you find that your line is twisted up, remove your lure and allow 20-30 yards of line to trail in the water from the rod behind you as you paddle. The resistance of the water will allow the line to untwist itself in a minute or two, then retie your lure.

                    Hope that this helps,

                    Stu
                    Last edited by bignose; 05-17-2021, 07:05 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wow. I just learned a lot of valuable information in just this thread alone. I am so grateful for all of the help that I have received from the members of this forum. I am planning on a trip this Sunday, so tomorrow is dedicated to trying to find a way to load and unload the new Falcon 11 without assistance. There was a lot of helpful information and video clips in another thread, so I have some ideas to try.

                      Thanks again everyone.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Stu,

                        It is so nice to see your reply. Reeling against the drag is something i do quite a bit because I keep my drag very loose....especially when trolling. Removing the lure and trolling some of the line is a great idea. Thank you.

                        Have you been fishing much this year? I hope that the football season went well. I cannot wait to start using my bignose spinner :--)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I put new line on both of my reels this weekend. I made sure to put the on properly thanks to the help on this board and a youtube video "How to spool a spinning reel without line twist". I had almost no line twist yesterday, but when I did have a little, I took Stu's suggestion and trolled with about 30 yards of line following the yak in the water as I paddled and the twist was gone by the time I reached my destination. Thank you everyone

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