The dream did come true - Kipto Tog (Nov 11)

[ictalurus]

Awesome work, Joe, and great video. Do you like the 7ft or the 6'3" Bass Pro graphite rod better for togging?

[ComeOnFish]

Awesome work, Joe, and great video. Do you like the 7ft or the 6'3" Bass Pro graphite rod better for togging?

Bill,

I prefer the 7' rod. It's a little pain when carrying it inside truck. And I have to be more careful when entering the house. My personal reasons are:

The rod is lighter – I can set the hook faster (I feel big difference between two rods)

In case I have time to cast a big lure for striper, I can cast better with the 7’ because it flexes more

I can switch the side of the rig that is on the bottom without bringing the rig all the way up. I can just swing the rod top around the bow. I couldn’t do this when I sat on an Adventure. But sitting on a Revo, with the 7’ rod is very easy even with my short arm. This is the one of the biggest improvements for me after I purchased a Revo.

But 7’ rod may not be good in a confined area such as inside the Concrete Ship.

Big people probably prefer the 6’3” because they are stronger and they have longer arms.


BTW,

Next time I may use Penn 109M (no level winder) for Tog. I can’t cast with Penn (9m, 109m, 209M), and they don’t come with the left side handle and quick release. But I think they are simple and trouble free when the drag is set to almost to maximum. I have used 2 different baitcasting reels and I found out that the quick fire clutch bar got stuck every time I caught a tog. I needed to set the drag very light to free the quick fire clutch bar.
I am not quite familar with baitcasting reels. What was I doing wrong?

Now I prefer 40# test super braided over 30# super braided as main line. I am using the swivel to connect the leader to the mainline. I still use 30# test (mono or fluoro carbon) for the leader because the 30# test leader is easy to break off (compare to 40# test mono). This way I only give up the leader and quickly replace the leader. I carry about 30 pre-rigged leaders in a multiple zip-lock bags.

Now I carry two rod tops, glue and lighter. I had two damaged rod tops by bumping into/rub against pilings

joe

[HokieDJ]

I prefer 6'8 rods now. I can still reach around the bow with it.

Why don't you guys use smaller bait casters like the Curado? My setup is a GL3 with Curado and it handles the tog's with no issues. Now I haven't caught a 24" yet but I'm sure it can handle that too

I would think the conventional reels are for monsters like rock in the 40" range.

[Pinch]

I used a trevala s rod with curado 201e7 and it handled several larger tog upto the 10lb'r (24") perfectly. Its super sensitive and while using 8 oz lead It never felt bogged down.

[Redfish12]

Why don't you guys use smaller bait casters like the Curado? My setup is a GL3 with Curado and it handles the tog's with no issues. Now I haven't caught a 24" yet but I'm sure it can handle that too

I would think the conventional reels are for monsters like rock in the 40" range.

The old penn's are fairly bullet proof and can be had for cheap, so they make a nice option, just hard to cast light lures. I have a 9m on one of the BPS muskie rods as a back up. I have been using a Cardiff 401a on a different set up because I like not having to flip a lever to engage the reel. I have it on a 6.5" M Trevala and it is ridiculously sensitive. I recently purchased a Newell 220 (lefty, hard to find!) so now I have a more reliable saltwater reel that I can still cast, but I'll have to get used to flipping the switch. I think it can handle anything that swims within kayak range of the beach. The heavy gear is partly for the fish and largely for standing up to the environment (pilings, rocks, concrete walls and rebar)

I have been wanting to try my carrot stick but I'm too afraid it will break, same with lighter rods. I got some tog jig heads for the next ships trip that I'm looking forward to trying on a light stick though.

[ComeOnFish]

I prefer 6'8 rods now. I can still reach around the bow with it.

Why don't you guys use smaller bait casters like the Curado? My setup is a GL3 with Curado and it handles the tog's with no issues. Now I haven't caught a 24" yet but I'm sure it can handle that too

I would think the conventional reels are for monsters like rock in the 40" range.

I am assuming you have a 300 series baitcasting reel with 15lb drag. Do you have a conventional reel without a quick fire clutch bar?
I broke a Cardiff 300 series which comes with 11lb drag. Now I have Abu Garcia Ambassdeur 6600 series (15lb drag). I feel I will break the reel soon. I was doing something wrong. Did I tight the drag too heavy? Do I have to oil the reel even though the reel is brad new? I am one of those people who read instructions after everthing failed.

joe

[tufnik]

Joe,
When you have the dropper loop 6" above the sinker, how high above the sinker is the hook? If your hook line is 3-4" and is attached to the loop, it will hang maybe 1" above the sinker, right?

Also, how is the Cardiff? I was thinking about buying a Cardiff 300a and putting 17 or 20# mono on it for tog fishing. Mono is more abrasion resistant than braid.

Hokie,
What kind of line do you have on your Curado? I have 12# Big Game on my Curado 200E7. I don't use it for togs.

For togs, I use my Calcutta 400 with 30# braid. I don't like it because it's heavy at 12 oz. I want a reel that's no more than 9-10 oz that can hold about 100 yds of 17 mono. That's why I thinking about the Cardiff, which is 9 oz, and can hold about 100 yds of 20# mono.

The Abu C3 is another option. I'm thinking the 5500 (about 10 oz) with 17# mono for togs. The 6500 is heavier.

I want to stick with mono because of it's abrasion resistance. I read that generally the toughness is about the same for braid and mono with the same diameter. Not sure this is true. If so, then 30# braid is as tough as 8# mono, which is hard to believe.

[ComeOnFish]

Dropper Loop and Sinker

Tufnik,

I don't have enough data so I can confirm the shorter distance is better yet.
Anyway, I didn't mention this. My dropper loop is shorter than Rob's 2-3'. I changed to 1 - 2". It is hard to put the hook through the dropper loop normal way if the loop is small (short). I put both end of the leaders through the dropper loop after I put the dropper loop through the ear of the hook. I thought I can set the hook better if the dropper loop is very short because I can feel the subtle bites. I think Tog is not leader shy or sinker shy.

The distance from the dropper loop to the sinker to me is this:

The distance between the knot of dropper loop and the end of the sinker loop when the sinker loop was stretched. So the bait is about 2.5-4" above the top of the sinker depending on the current. I felt Tog is a bottom feeder because Tog never touched the baits that were placed 15-16” above the sinker to me

[HokieDJ]

I have the Curado 301E. I use 20 lb braid on one and 30lb braid on the other. For togs, I use a 40 lb mono I rigged as a leader. FWIW, I did a search on Calcutta vs Curado and pretty much they are neck and neck. Calcutta being heavier and longer lasting but in a kayak, weight matters to me. I just got into bait casting and never read instructions so I don't even know how to set the brakes and such. I just cast and thumb the spool before it hits the water.

As far as how high or low the bait is in regards to the hook, I'm not sure it matters. I have used my rigs where the crab hangs right at the same level as the weight and some a few inches above and it didn't matter. Of course this is all at Kipto so maybe CBBT will be different.

[ictalurus]

Joe--I've read about some baitcasters, particularly Abus, coming from the factory with very little or no grease on the gears. My Revo SX HS had almost no grease on it when it was brand new, but my Quantum Accurist was OK. It might be worth opening up your reel to make sure there's grease in there. Just be careful pulling off the drag stack. I fumbled the washers once and couldn't figure out the order even after looking at the schematic and couldn't get it right by trial and error, so I had to send it off to be reassembled properly.

[ComeOnFish]

user error

Bill,
I think it can be considered as a user error.

For my defense, I think, if an instruction is not stated on the manual then it is not a user error. But I may be lack of common sense.

I duplicated the stuck quick-fire-clutch bar problem this evening. I had two old bait-casting reels (Shimano Corsair CA200A). I used them for flounder fishing 10+ years ago. And I never had the stuck Quick-fire-clutch bar issues. I tied Nemo (my 8 lb dog) to the fishing line. He is OK with it. He likes it. I reeled him and tried what I did while sitting on the kayak. It happened again when I was testing with old Corsair. I found the reason for the stuck quick-fire-clutch bar problem. I used to use thumb drag a lot when I used small conventional reels on the boat. It became/is my habit.
What I did with bait-casting reels was that I pressed the quick-fire-clutch bar to unlock the spool while the line is in tension. I learned today that there must be no tension on the line to push down the quick-fire-clutch bar to unlock the spool for free lining.

I am glad that I found the reason. Now I have two more additional reels (Shimano Corsair) for tog fishing. I thought I had undersized or defective reels (Shimano Cardiff and Abu Garcia) until this evening.

So I broke the Shimano Cardiff 301A 10 days ago by pressing the quick-fire-clutch bar very hard.

By the way, am I lack of common sense, or was it a user error? My wife will say "both".

Joe

[ictalurus]

The thumb bar is definitely a weak link for baitcasters. Before I buy one, I'll test it in the store to see how solidly it re-engages when the handle is turned. You can feel the mechanism slip and grind in some reels, so I avoided those, particularly low end Daiwas, Pfluegers, and Quantums. When I took apart my Revo and Accurist, their mechanisms seemed pretty solid, but I have goofed a couple times and caused problems. I probably did exactly what you're talking about.

Now, I want to see a video of you reeling in your dog. One of my cats needs to do exercises to strengthen her leg after a surgery last month. Maybe I'll hook her harness up to one of my baitcasters.

[Redfish12]

Hey Joe, did they have the 6501? It doesn't have a thumb bar and has a button on the side plate. It may help you avoid pressing the bar down when you have tension on the line. It's definitely a weak point on bc's, conventional are a little better due to the lever but not as easy to cast or as light. If you want I can put some grease on your Abu and take a look at that 209.

I'm contemplating heading to chsp on Sunday, anyone interested?

[ComeOnFish]

Michael,
Believe or not I am officially working Friday evening to Sunday 5:00pm for a major deployment.

I am the only one working and I scheduled long running jobs on Saturday. So On Saturday I will be in Charlottesville watching Hokie crushing Cat-valiers.
Then Sunday I am working whole day.

Joe

[camelbird]

joe,

Not sure if you'll get this, but in the video... what type of scissors were you using to dice up the blue crab?

Thanks

Justin