Challenges of Fly Fishing from a Moving Kayak

[On the fly]

I would not. The Titian is for large flies. What are you targeting with the 5 wt? What type of flies do you normally use?

[dirtyjake237]

I can't believe I missed this thread for almost a month.... I guess I'll have to keep checking in more often. This is a great topic, awesome discussion with priceless advice from all who contributed. I always learn something new when I keep an open mind, and I just had this discussion about SA lines with Harry before my last trip to NC.... I switched over to my first SA line in November and they are very impressive. But all the drum, trout and albacore I caught in NC will have to go into a different thread.
Back to this thread "challenges of fly fishing from a moving yak" and compounded with catching smallies on moving water!?!?! WOW thanks for reminding me of all that I have forgotten and why/how I learned to fish. I can really appreciate Mark's feedback especially the one about "this is not a bone fish flat in FL" that one really rings true to my heart and the remainder of my advice. I too have fallen prey to the pretentiousness of bragging about catching sailfish or tuna with a fly rod, or only using a fly rod on that flat in FL when the wind is blowing 25+mph and the guide can't even hold the boat still. Most of the time while on these fools errands there are inexperienced anglers right next to me, even sometimes on the same boat as me catching fish with spin cast gear or god forbid .....bait!..... all while I get a big expensive skunk. In fact while on one of these fools errands we actually banded together and justified the 4 of us spending $1,200 a day for a week attempting to catch big eyed tuna with fly rods by wearing the skunk as a badge of honor telling all on board the analogy of trying to "hunt tigers with bb guns". Yes there are MANY disadvantages to using a fly rod..... so why do I????
About 35 years ago at the age of 8... I can't tell you why, but I decided that I was going to buy a fly rod. So there I stood on the lawn practicing my casting with a fiberglass rod and level line for the remainder of the summer. When the next summer came around I had the basics down and could tie a makeshift woolly bugger with yarn and sewing thread I "borrowed" from my Grandmother, so off i went to the river near my house. There were no trout in this river as it was the Mohawk river near Albany NY, but is was FULL of small mouth bass and they were eager to eat my makeshift streamers. My older brother accompanied me on this trip... probably because I wasn't allowed to go by myself at that age. He brought with him the old faithful, spinning rod with chartreuse twister tail grub on a jig head. We parked our bikes on the bank, waded in to our waist and began fishing. We each caught some fish, and that is when it dawned on both of us... there were some times when I was catching more fish than him!?!?! and other times when he could catch fish and I wasn't as "lucky". There was one spot in particular that I was able to out fish my older brother, that was the horseshoe falls where the river makes a large swirling eddy next to the current of the falls. With a fly rod it was a fish every cast, all day, every day and you didn't need to be much of a talent as you could just stand at the base of the falls and strip line down current to the fish. This is the first lesson I learned from the fly line, how to read the seam between moving and slow water. The fly line could bend with the current exactly on the seam and I would learn later from this why it would catch more fish and how fish behave. In fact I began to notice that the fly line naturally wanted to always move from the fast water to the slow water and remain right there on the seam where they meet. In fact the fly line can perceive these seams that are otherwise imperceptible to the angler especially when dealing with vertical seams due to changes in depth or width of the river...then BLAMO! a smallie would hit the fly. LIGHTBULB!!!!!! To the fish the river is nothing more than a food conveyor belt, and rather than walking or running on this belt the fish want to stand right next to or under it expending as little energy as possible to get food delivered to them.
While most trout angler understand this and read the water the same way, they deploy dry flies or nymphs and both of these require slack or mended line as to present something freely floating downstream. This is indicative of the way trout fly fishermen think and they attempt to translate this into how they fish for bass.... just like in the article you cited. Don't get me wrong bass will be caught with those tactics, especially when there is one guy fishing and the other guy rowing to hold you in the seam or drift at the same pace as the fly. We alone in a kayak or canoe do not have such luxuries. I have also seen from my own experience that this is not the best or most effective way to catch smallies in a river and no such nonsense is required with streamers or woolly buggers, especially when targeting smallies... they prefer a bait to fight or cross the current slightly most of the time striking just as the fly stops going down or cross stream at the very end of the sweep just before the only option is to begin a stripping retrieve.
So what is my most effective tactic for catching smallies in a river? Even more effective than spin cast gear!?!?!? Well we didn't have plastic kayaks back in the 80s but we did have canoes, and they are great because they have a point on each end. I am also a BIG believer in trolling because the lure is almost always in the strike zone. So I combine the two taking the strengths of each and eliminating or not focusing on the disadvantages all while capitalizing on the advantages of the fly rod and the canoe/kayak. Strip out about 60 to 80 feet of line depending on speed of current and depth of river, and paddle to hold the boat stationary in reference to the bank. Then slowly make your way across the river letting the flyline find all those seams naturally, this is done best with a boat that will allow you paddle with your back upstream so a kayak with a point on both ends is a good choice. Most sit inside kayaks have this and most sit on tops are more unidirectional, but that is a different discussion altogether. After a while you will notice where the fly wants to go, and the more you allow it to do so the more it will get taken by a fish. You'll also notice that those rocks the fish are hiding near a lot easier to fish by just positioning the boat upstream and letting the fly naturally sweep past them. SLOW DOWN AND LET THE RIVER DO THE WORK while you remain still and observant. The river and fly line will teach you how to read the water...... then BLAMO! FISH ON!
I go on much later in life and more recently to use this same theory on tidal rips near points. Too windy to cast, no problem let the rip do the work. Tidal current too slow to perceive or hold with spin cast gear, no problem the fly line will find the right spot. This is when and how I use the fly rod now, it is used by trout anglers to mimic dry flies or nymphs lighter than the line.... this is something that spin casters or bait can't do. I have found that a streamer stuck at a seam.... any seam, even one that bends abruptly or can't be perceived by us humans will be found by the fly and that is where the fish are feeding. In almost all other circumstances except shallow flats with delicate presentations like our famous bone fish scenario, trolling, bait casting, spin casting or live bait will out fish us.
So I have a decision to make, use the fly rod the best way I know how.... oddly enough the way I taught myself to catch fish over 30 years ago. Or force myself to use the fly rod in a less than optimal manner and catch less fish.... Oddly enough I still at times stand there and rip out the longest cast I can in hope for the rush of fooling a fish. So I guess in that sense my first self taught lesson was that I also enjoyed just standing on the lawn my first year watching the line move back and forth..... Perhaps it soothes my OCD or I am somewhat on the autistic spectrum???? maybe we should give kids fly rods instead of Ritalin prescriptions. We didn't have meds when I was growing up, we had to go outside and entertain ourselves.
In any case tight lines and thanks for reminding me that sometimes is isn't about catching a fish that is important to me, but just the learning experiences and memories long forgotten that keep me going back out on the water.
Thanks for the memories and lessons forgotten.
So I would say this tactic is best described as a reverse trolling tactic with the fly remaining stationary in moving water. It is not glamorous or flashy, and no one will be impressed by my lack of casting prowess... However it will produce the most amount of results and allow you to fish seams in water too deep to stand in and that will catch more fish or fish that are otherwise out of reach while wading or using spin cast tackle. In fact the next year my brother returned with me to that same stretch of river with his own fly rod in hand and we have been fly fisherman ever since. We both later went on many fools errands using fly rods when they were not the "BEST" tactic and wore many skunk badges for it.
Now that I have some grey in my beard and can readily identify my own out of control ego or false sense of pride, I more easily admit to myself those situations when the fly rod is not the "BEST" choice and how to "BEST" use a fly rod.

[DanMarino]

I wish there was a "Like" button for this thread. Thanks for everyone who is contributing.

[DanMarino]

I would not. The Titian is for large flies. What are you targeting with the 5 wt? What type of flies do you normally use?

Hi Harry,

I love using my 5 weight rod. Comfortable. Light. Just feels right in my hand. I would like to get a floating line that would help me cast a little better on the Upper Potomac when smallmouth fishing. Wind is a factor on the open river sometimes. I really don't like my 7 weight rod. It wears me out and is heavier. Mostly wanting to throw some topwater flies, or some weighted crawdad flies. I'm mostly fishing 5 feet deep or less. Really would like to get a little more distance from the 5 weight, or find a better line for the 7 weight.

[On the fly]

https://www.scientificanglers.com/pr...ooth-infinity/
Either amplitude smooth infinity
Or
Smooth Titian long

We can meet up and I can let you cast my 6wt Titian taper and mpx
I think I have a smooth infinity also.

Harry

[Mark]

Tom,

There are good reasons fly rods come in various weight classes. Try as you might with line improvements, it will be difficult to make a 5 wt. fish like a 7 wt. With today’s quality light graphite rods and a matched reel, a 7 wt. should not be a heavy tool to use and certainly not tiring to cast.

In fact, I would find it much more tiring to try to push wet pickerel streamers or large wind resistant bass poppers with a 5 wt. than with a matched 6 or 7 wt. outfit. That 5 wt. can work only so hard for me. A 6 or 7 has the additional backbone to launch larger flies even into a breeze where that same breeze would turn the 5 wt. into the proverbial wet noodle.

So rather than relining your 5 wt., and expecting it to increase it its range beyond intended limits, you might want to closer look at your 7. Can you reduce the rod’s carrying weight with a better reel? Is the rod glass or graphite? Graphite would be lighter, of course. And then get the best matched line you can afford. I’m big proponent of the lines Harry recommended.

Save your 5 wt. for smaller target fish. While it’s nice to land a big one on a 5 wt. – as you well know, bass will hit bluegill poppers and stripers swim with white perch -- you’ll be able to consistently target larger fish and cast bigger flies farther and for longer durations without fatigue on a well matched 6 or 7 wt.

Good luck.