Fly Leader Help

[Slobber Bob]

I need a little help understanding fly fishing leaders (tippets?). I haven't fly fished since my high school days (20+ years ago), so forgive me in advance if these are total googan questions.

I came into a 7wt, 9ft fly rod not too long ago. I haven't fished with it yet, but I have taken it out into the yard and cast a little just to mess around. Casting came back pretty naturally and I surprised myself how quickly I was feeling comfortable casting again. We'll see how it goes trying it from a kayak though - I'm sure it'll be a tangled mess I plan to start using the rod behind OC once the shallow water striper fishery starts up this fall and winter. I'll only be fishing 2 - 4 ft. depth of water when I use it in areas with light current.

The rod came rigged up with a leader that has about 6 different knots tied in, a few sections of doubled line, and leader material of different diameters and lb. test throughout. I really have no idea what is going on with the leader or why it is tied like that? I tried to take a picture of it and I'm not sure if somebody can tell me what might be going on with it? The best I can guess is it all has something to do with helping the fly roll over when landing on the water, but it seems overly complicated. And when I started googling fly leaders it only became further confusing.

Will a straight piece of mono not work as leader?

IMG_0483.jpg

[bignose]

For use in tidal water, a fly rod leader does not have to be overly complicated.
The intent of the leader is to transfer energy to turn the fly over, but you are not dealing with a delicate presentation like you would if fishing tiny dry flies to spooky trout, or fishing clear flats for bonefish.

There are all sorts of formulas circulating about section length and types of material.....make your life simple, and purchase a cheap 7 1/2 foot tapered leader that ends at 10-12 pound test, and then add an 18" section of mono as the tippet (allows you to change flies without shortening the actual leader), figure 12-15 pound test for most tidal striper fishing will do fine. The butt section will be stiff enough to turn the fly over and the tippet will not be spooking the fish.

You could get by with a single strand of 12-15 pound test, about 3-4 feet long for most streamer fishing. The fish are not leader shy, as long as you don't splash too hard as the fly lands. `It will be a bit of a dog to cast, but you can get by with it.

BTW, I was never comfortable casting a fly rod from a sitting position.........

[Slobber Bob]

Thank you, Bignose. The simpler the better for me! I will look at getting a tapered leader as you suggested and just tying off some 15 lb. mono for tippet.

These fish are anything but spooky when they are actively feeding. If I can skip and splash Bombers and Sp Minnows at them, then I'm sure hoping I can land a fly in their face without spooking them no matter how ugly the cast. Casting sitting will be a new challenge. I'm hoping I can get it done kneeling if I can't sitting. I'm looking forward to giving it a try either way.

[bignose]

BTW, I tie a small loop at the end of the tapered leader and a similar loop in the tippet. I then hook the two loops together to make changing the tippet easy.

[Mark]

Slobber Bob,

This slide is about leaders from a PowerPoint presentation I do on kayak fly fishing:

Leaders.jpg

I hope it shows up well. If not, PM me and I will give you the details.

It's a formula for tying your own leaders. I do so for two reasons:

First, store bought tapered leaders are expensive -- especially when you consider that you are paying $5 to $10 for an 8 to 9 ft. piece of monofilament as opposed to the cost of spools of hundreds of yards of mono.

Second, many of the commercial tapered leaders are not stout enough to adequately turn over the flies we use in kayak fishing for stripers, pickerel and bass. Some of the flies we use are wind resistant, like big poppers, or heavy like wet streamers. And as Stu said above the species we chase in our kayaks are not leader shy. We don't have to use long wispy leaders that are common in trout fishing.

If the above chart is readable, you'll see I start with 50# mono as the butt section. That sounds high but consider the diameter of the end of the fly line itself. It's much thicker than 50# test. To the butt I connect sections of 40# and 30# mono with double surgeon's knots. (Those knots never fail.) The goal is to make a tapered butt section 5 feet long. To that I add 3 feet of tippet anywhere from 10# to 20# mono to create a tapered leader 8 feet long. To be honest, I mostly use 20# mono for tippet unless I am fishing for bluegills or perch. Then, I'll use 10#. The reason, again, is to be able to turn over the larger flies used for bigger fish.

Another thing you'll notice is that I put loops on both ends of the leader butt section. The reason for that is to connect the leader butt to the fly line and the leader tippet to the leader. That gives a leader butt section an indefinite life. You never actually cut back the butt section. You merely add a fresh tippet to it via and loop to loop connection when the tippet has become too short from fly changes.

You'll also notice on the chart that I use a different and simpler leader for pickerel. It's shorter and comprised of only a 50# butt section and 40# tippet. Pickerel will shred the 40# tippet somewhat during an outing depending on how many you catch. It's wise to check the leader during outings and to change it if it's chewed up after catching a good number of them. But rarely will they bite through it. I had only one do so last year and I catch a lot of pickerel on the fly in winter.

Finally, regarding casting while seated, it's very easy. It's trite but true -- Let the rod do the work. Many fly casters do not do that even while standing. They force the cast. As a result they don't let the rod load properly on the back cast. They have no rhythm and their timing is way off. They'll have a harder time while seated. I'd be glad to give you pointers to overcome that either in writing or in person.

Good luck and enjoy the fly rod. It's a fishing method more kayak anglers should try.

[Slobber Bob]

Thank you, Mark. That's all very helpful information. I hadn't even looked at the cost of tapered leader yet, but considering I already have spools of different lb. test mono lying around, that seems like the cheapest choice. I am now starting to understand why the leader the rod was already rigged with has so many knots and different lengths of line tied into it.

And thank you for the kind offer on the seated casting instructions; I may take you up on that offer at a later point. I think I need to get out and try it first to see what works for me and what doesn't.

[bignose]

Great information Mark.

I never cared much for knotted leaders.

I didn't like how they cast, but that was 20+ years ago and I was fishing for trout. Some of the flies were like size 16, basically a piece of fuzz on a hook that was 3/16" long.
I had't priced one and was shocked when i saw the price Amazon was asking.

I figured a knotless tapered leader would last me most of a season

[Mark]

Thanks Stu.

Cost indeed is a factor, but I would buy tapered knotless leaders if they turned over flies as well as my homemade ones do.

In the "old days" knotted leaders had numerous segments of precise, declining lengths and diameters. They used double uni-knots for each connection. They would take forever to tie and it was hard to get the segments lined up appropriately in the right lengths with such an intricate knot. They were almost works of art. They looked great. But they were far too much work.

Creating a butt section with only 3 segments and 2 knots and using double surgeon's knots makes it even easier. And close is good enough. You do not have to be precise on the segment sizes. If I want a softer landing than an 8 foot leader furnishes ...I don't like poppers to go "splat" when they land on the surface... I'll lengthen the tippet beyond 3 feet to maybe 4. The 50, 40, 30# butt section is still strong enough to turn the popper over and the extra length of the tippet allows the popper to land softly like a falling insect.

The only negative with the above knotted leaders is in ponds with thick algae. The leader knots may pick up pond scum that a knotless leader would not. However, when that happens, which is rare, it typically flies off of the leader on the back cast. Just don't follow me too closely on the water if you want to avoid airborne slime.